Brushless DF-03

[gracoat]

Does anyone actually have a brushless df-03?
Lots of videos on youtube etc, but no one ever says "I spent 50 bucks on repairs today cause I melted the plastic here and had to get replacement this's."
Or... "I totally spun the teeth off the spur gear this afternoon and it's like the THIRD time I've done it."

I suppose I'd like to hear some testimony from someone who's actually done it.
Guh... My Mrs. DF-03 would probably divorce me for spending more... heheh... But there's a bunch of new in box Mamba Max 5700 kits on ebay for some smokin' prices. ...wives aside... Am I asking for repair bills that I probably wouldn't have to spend had I gotten a Durga, or 501?

Could someone please talk me into it?

[widnerkj]

I don't know if anyone got back to you on this in a PM or not, so I'll say what I know. There are quite a few of these little buggers running around with brushless motors, but there are quite a few required upgrades before headed that route. First off is a slipper, which have been difficult to find aside from straight off ebay. Dinball stocks quite a few upgrades for this car, as does stella models. Using the MM motor is pretty difficult as the screws around the can cause interference issues. But the word from castle is they are only there for while the cement dries, we can take them out without worry. The part plastic rear diff cup, WILL melt. I've ordered the 3racing steel ones. So far the biggest worry has been trying to figure out spur and pinion combos for this thing as they are .5 pitch. (correct me if i'm wrong)
One of the guys here is running one, that we put a trx vxl burshless combo in for a few runs to see how it'd handle. (as dumb boys go.. we didn't have a slipper on it) It was crazy fast with the supplied gearing, but all of a sudden turned into a front wheel drive car. So we pulled the rear diff, and found the plastic gear that holds the diff balls had melted. No hobby shop or part support here in Afganistan, so we broke out the CA and turned it into a spool. Runs very fast, and the rear swings out wildly in turns. but everything is holding together quite well. I wouldn't race a DF-03 with a "welded solid" diff, but it's pretty reasonable for bashing.
I've got a kit for myself on order, and am probally going to run the MM 5700 in it, though I'm going to be super carefull on building / reinforceing the diff's in order to keep them alive.

[stebedford]

hmm i was going to make my df03 brushless but i dont like the sound of things melting lol.

Mines got most hop ups available but where can i get the steel diff cup?

[widnerkj]

The best place I have found for parts for this car are right off of ebay, I'll list the sellers that have been treating me the best so far.

the-toyz
stellamodels
jr-rc
toyeast
rdvtg
dinball

There is a very long post about this car here on oople, and quite a few people are running brushless setups in this car. I'd really reccomend the slipper, and the steel diff outdrives by 3racing, if you can fit the motor and keep the temps down it should be problem free and faster than most other things.

[qatmix]

I have been running a 5.5t brushless in mine. The car has a slipper clutch and still has the plastic outdrives. At the moment they are still fine. I do have a spare front outdrive (the tamiya front ones are metal) which I will use if and when the plastic one gives up.

I like the df03 for ragging around, the shorter wheelbase makes it good for bashing as its keen on throwing the end out.

Other hop-ups that are good are

CVJ's at the front
carbon front suspension brace
Rear aluminium suspension brace
centre one way is also good for more steering, cheap as well (£8)

[stebedford]

hmm on a slightly different matter, the steering seems to stick on my df03, like full left lock, when i take the top off it looks like the connection to the servo has slipped and i need to take if off and re align, anyone else have that problem? or know how to fix it?

[T4miy4 Guy]

Hi i think you will need one of these http://demonpowerproducts.co.uk/prod...roducts_id=283

its basically a better servo saver than the stock Tamiya one i think it fits you buggy

Hope this helps Andy

[tom_chang79]

I don't understand how people melt their gears. Perhaps we are talking about the two variants:

DF-03

vs.

DF-03MS

???

I've been running my DF-03MS with a Castle Mamba Max + 4600Kv since I've bought it. Only recently have I switched over to the Hobbywing Ezrun 60A V2 + 4300Kv motor...

I have yet to melt any diffs, gears, or bust the idlers. This is after running this for about a year. 7 to 12 packs over the weekends...

The biggest key to keeping your drivetrain intact, even with the hottest brushless are:

1) Slipper Clutch

2) Proper break-in and shimming of the gears...


I've bought a spare "spur gear" and "diff gear" sets, but NEVER had to use them...

I'm not trying to advertise or anything but this is my DF-03 as it is now:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...cers-only.html

It is nearly BULLETPROOF. This buggy took a little bit of work to get it there, but it was worth the trip. Afterall, driving AND tuning is what I enjoy in this hobby.

This buggy runs great. It can keep up with my B44 (which has a Mamba Max + 5700Kv motor).

The two reasons why I got rid of the Mamba Max + 4600Kv motor was because:

1) I needed another brushless system for my SC10 that I bought

2) Hobbywings' Brushless form and fit much better than my Mamba Max, whereas the Mamba Max fit very well into my more-than-plenty room in my SC10.


Don't get me wrong, I've experienced breakage of various components here and there, mainly the lower half of the front transmission case, the portion of the brace that goes over the steering assembly.

But each breakage was addressed with either a hop-up part that was out there or was remedied by a DIY (do-it-yourself) parts...


Crucial thing for you "non-MS" owners as well as the "MS" owners:

1) Swap out the rear outdrive with an extra set of the fronts, they are identical. The fronts are all-steel. The rears are half steel. Make sure you get the Tamiya Steel outdrives. Third Party ones suck.

2) Get the TBR Bumper/Skid (their latest design for the DF-03). This will save the lower half of the front gearbox.

3) Make sure you get the 3Racing tranny and rear hingepin brace

4) CRUCIAL is the DIY brace as shown in my link on my buggy.

5) Check your diff and slipper often. Sand down your slipper pads from time to time to make sure it's functional.

6) Swap out the thrust bearing and do a DIY thrust bearing with steel balls and washers. The stock Tamiya ones does not hold up.

7) Use front hingepin brace from 5-Star (they are elusive company, but you can find that part from RC Champ in Tokyo).

8) Avoid alloy suspension parts as much as possible. The only ones I used on the arms are the uprights and the rear hub carriers (to avoid drilling a hole into the stock ones as per instructions).


That's it... And it's a very unique buggy now... It took some work, but it's not a saddle, it's not a battery-to-one-side-really-a-touring-car style 4WD buggy... It's a 4WD buggy that has a similar layout as a 2WD...

[T4miy4 Guy]

I think the variable you are missing is experience!

People (myself included) learn from there mistakes,some of them costly.

You yourself Tom sound quite knowledgable regarding Rc stuff and setups

I have stripped spur gears,melted diff`s etc but through experience and knowledge from others, i have learned where my mistakes were and how to eliminate them next time.

Nice buggy by the way

Andy

[tom_chang79]

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. I've been playing with RCs for almost 20 years now. The DF-03 was the most difficult buggy to get it race-worthy. I thought my FT B4 was bad trying to NOT break front arms (even when it lands right), and not to mess up the diffs because doing so made the buggy take off in a not-so-straight fashion.

However, after I built my DF-03 and my re-re Fire Dragon, I have a renewed appreciation for Tamiya. Looks like Tamiya has gotten their stuff together with the release of the DB-01 and the 501.

I'm starting to get into on-road cars again, and my next vehicle for on-road is a Tamiya...

I've recently scored a FF01 NIB Chassis kit, and I've been eyeing the TA05v2 kit for a while now!

I've made some observations at the track last time I took my DF-03 out, and I've made some observations at home looking at the buggy. The next thing I'm going to work on is getting more droop out of the DF-03.

I initially put a conservative amount of spacers inside all four shocks to prevent the drive shafts from snapping the outdrives in half. I need to reduce the amount of limiters inside the shock to get more droop out of this buggy. Currently, it's fine the way it is, but I think there's more to be improved on this buggy....

I just wish that other vendors/manufacturers would take note of Tamiya's DF-03 chassis. If Tamiya spent just a little more effort, it would've had a great contender...

Like some of my questions for Tamiya would be, why not make the DF-03 with the same type of plastics that 501x is made of? It can't be cost, since majority of the cost of plastic is in the molds and setup right?

[Ferret]

I'm not a plastics expert, but I believe that changing the type of plastic would require a different mold and setup because each plastic behaves differently when injected.

Avner.

[Si Coe]

Additionally as I understand it the TRF cars aren't actually made at the main Tamiya factory but produced by a small separate company for Tamiya. Which means they can use fundamentally different technologies.

In any case, the materials used differ between applications.
The DF03 though race worthy is primarily aimed at the basher market, and was never originally intended to house monster brushless systems. It was built to be reliable with minimal maintenance using basic 540 class motors down to no lower than 19t brushed.
The TRF cars are no nonsense racers. They need more looking after with exposed drivetrains etc, and use stiffer plastics that reduce flex to aid setup, but are more fragile in a high speed collision (DF03 wishbones bend and pop out, but don't break). They were built for massive horsepower, but at the trade off of more servicing.

[sim]

For the Mamba 5700, motor heat might be an issue. There's no easy way to add a heatsink or a fan.

[B44&501xRacerEX]

The Df03 was made for brushed motors, I ran a team checkpoint 19T money
in mine when I had it. Getting a brushless system to fit the chassis is next to impossible unless you want to cut some plastic off.

[tom_chang79]

???

I and other racers have brushless in our system no problem...

I've had a Castle 4600Kv in there (with the Mamba Max) and it now has a 4300Kv Hobbywing Motor.

It's a very tight fit, and the instruction does show to mount the motor then mount the entire rear end onto the chassis...

But with a bit of careful nudging, you can get it in there.

I use the 5700Kv in my B44. What you essentially can do is turn the motor timing to lowest, and it'll behave very similar to a 4600Kv...

[B44&501xRacerEX]

If you run brushless then you have to get the slipper and the heat sink bars that go on top of the motor plate. It was my learning stage in that time period. I ran the car without the slipper, since I was running brushed, I went through 1 gear set the entire 1 year time span I had it. Just let off the throttle when you land and your gears will last a long time. I also ran associated shocks on it. When the B44 first came out I sold it. If you want to learn how to drive a 4-wheel buggy a DF03 or Durga is the way to go. I had a DF02 gravel hound as well, tough as nails, I tried to break it and it never gave up on me.
I wasnt scared to run with the 8th scale buggies with the gravel hound, it took very hard hits from them. Fun years from my novice days.