Tlr 22 bump steer

[Scooby27]

Noticed when building the car it has a lot of bump steer which is not a good. After feed back from the big brother who races nitro cars and done ball stud spacers being moved around car seems million times better. Let you know what like when run it.

[reg]

if you put a 2mm spacer on the spindle it should get rid of it

[Wacker 2]

This has been a concern of mine also... I've built it but not ran it yet and have heard quite a few people stating the 22 has alot of bump steer.

When you say the spindle do you mean the outer steering arm???

Just wanna make sure I'm taking washers out or adding washers in the correct place so that I dont mess the entire steering geometry up completely!

Thanks, Jon!

[reg]

Originally Posted by Wacker 2

When you say the spindle do you mean the outer steering arm???

yes mate,im not to sure which setup sheet its on but it does show it,

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Not sure if the instructions are at their clearest regarding this point.

The 2mm washer that is suggested to fit under the ball stud on the spindle (at the wheel end) is only required when using the flat shim under the kick plate.
When using the tapered shim as the instructions suggest, remove the 2mm washer and you'll find that the bump steer has gone.

The tapered wedge effectively raises the spindle as a by product of reducing the kick up.

You'll probably find that you will need different thicknesses of washers if you start to play with the option caster blocks also.

HTH

[coleman758]

Can someone explain bump steer?

[The Pookster]

I think the assumption that you don't want bump steer is not correct, after all every real car sold today has it, and race cars too.

It's easy to confuse bump steer with driving straight and the car steering itself on the bumps, this doesn't happen and isn't the reason for it.

What is used on real cars is a small amount of toe out as the wheel moves into bump, which is exactly what the kit build leads to. This has the effect of slowing down the response of the car as you turn into corners, and the faster you go the greater the effect.

So if you have a set up that feels a bit edgy on turn in, especially on the fast sections, adding some toe out bump steer can have a dramatic effect in making the car feel more stable allowing you to drive a bit more aggresively, and making the car easier to drive.

I think the 22 has a few modern car derived ideas, like the steering rack and bump steer, as well as low roll centres and lower front kick up. It means the set-up might need to be pushed a little outside of the norm to get the full benefit.

[bigred5765]

look down on the car and push the suspension down, on the 22 it moves the wheel to toe out as u compress it,

[Scooby27]

You def don't want bump steer. All cars do slightly yes but in kit setup it has a lot. My b4 has basically none. After playing with setup car on the bench seems miles better.

[ianjoyner]

Originally Posted by Gnarly Old Dog

Not sure if the instructions are at their clearest regarding this point.

The 2mm washer that is suggested to fit under the ball stud on the spindle (at the wheel end) is only required when using the flat shim under the kick plate.
When using the tapered shim as the instructions suggest, remove the 2mm washer and you'll find that the bump steer has gone.

The tapered wedge effectively raises the spindle as a by product of reducing the kick up.

You'll probably find that you will need different thicknesses of washers if you start to play with the option caster blocks also.

HTH

Thanks Gnarly, I'm not sure everyone's picked up on this. It looks like a mistake in the manual (assuming the aim is 0 bump steer). If you build as per the manual with the tapered kick shim (20 degrees), you should leave out the 2mm spacer on the spindle (which the manual shows in), this will give you 0 bump steer.

If you want to use the flat kick shim (25 degrees), put the 2mm spacer on the spindle.

If you build as per the manual with the tapered kick shim and the 2mm spacer you will be left with bump steer as most people have found.

The actual size of spacer required will also be affected by choice of caster.

[pugboy]

Originally Posted by Gnarly Old Dog

Not sure if the instructions are at their clearest regarding this point.

The 2mm washer that is suggested to fit under the ball stud on the spindle (at the wheel end) is only required when using the flat shim under the kick plate.
When using the tapered shim as the instructions suggest, remove the 2mm washer and you'll find that the bump steer has gone.

The tapered wedge effectively raises the spindle as a by product of reducing the kick up.

You'll probably find that you will need different thicknesses of washers if you start to play with the option caster blocks also.

HTH

I never noticed any reference to the flat kick shim in the manual, mine was built with 20 degree and tapered spacer, then I swapped to the 25 degree, still with tapered shim. Is this wrong? I have 2mm spacer on the hub and no bump steer.

[till]

Originally Posted by coleman758

Can someone explain bump steer?

It would really be nice to get it explained, sorry if it was on here, but i still don´t understand it^^

[ianjoyner]

Originally Posted by till

It would really be nice to get it explained, sorry if it was on here, but i still don´t understand it^^

If you compress the front suspension the toe/steering angle changes. If you build as per the manual the front wheels will point outwards slightly as you compress the suspension.

[ianjoyner]

Originally Posted by pugboy

I never noticed any reference to the flat kick shim in the manual, mine was built with 20 degree and tapered spacer, then I swapped to the 25 degree, still with tapered shim. Is this wrong? I have 2mm spacer on the hub and no bump steer.

When you say swapped to 25 degree still with tapered shim? The 25 degree shim is the flat shim, so I'm not sure what you mean?

If you've now got the 25 degree (flat shim) then from what Gnarly says you are right to have the 2mm spacer and should have no bump steer.

If you still have the 20 degree (tapered shim, as per manual) then you should remove the 2mm spacer to get no bump steer.

[pugboy]

Originally Posted by ianjoyner

When you say swapped to 25 degree still with tapered shim? The 25 degree shim is the flat shim, so I'm not sure what you mean?

If you've now got the 25 degree (flat shim) then from what Gnarly says you are right to have the 2mm spacer and should have no bump steer.

If you still have the 20 degree (tapered shim, as per manual) then you should remove the 2mm spacer to get no bump steer.

Think I'm getting my shims crossed?! There were two plastic shims plates with the triangular cut out, one marked 20 and one 25 which is what you are talking about... but I was thinking of the other tapered shims/spacers that fit over the screws, all part of the same area... so I think what I have fitted is correct...I'll go back to my hole!

[cr1tch]

Just reading all these posts ^^^^^ and i have so further info to add but please do correct me if i am wrong

i ve got mine sorted now after racing at 3 different tracks this week!!! if you put on the thinner front 25 degree spacer (with triangle hole) you need to put on a 2mm washer under the ball stud to get rid of the bump steer.

If you have the thicker spacer you dont need any washers under the ball stud. Also having the thinner 25 degree spacer reduces the cars front end twitchiness of the steering.

[Nitrius]

Edit: Think i got it, remove the 2mm washers on the spindle if you use the 20 degree(TLR1051) plate in the front. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Wacker 2]

what handling characteristics would change between the 20 degree front plate, and the 25 degree front plate???

I'm running Mid Motor!

Thanks, Jon!

[stegger]

Originally Posted by Wacker 2

what handling characteristics would change between the 20 degree front plate, and the 25 degree front plate???

I'm running Mid Motor!

Thanks, Jon!

Looking at it logically i would presume increasing it would make the front end better over bumps, though increasing it would also increase your castor angle ! Every manual i have built a car from has always had a page or two giving you some sort of setup advice, don't know why it's not in the 22 manual.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by coleman758

Can someone explain bump steer?

see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKJAukSZRT0