Brushless motor/interference?

[littlened]

Just got an Orion Vortex ESC and 4.5t brushless motor. fitted them to the car using the standard receiver and a set of brand new orion 5100 nihm batteries. At first the car cut out all the time, which I figured was down to the tamiya battery connections, I've order some better connections which are more suitable, but in the meantime I've connected the battery to the car using 240v connections, so they shouldn't cause any bottleneck. I'm finding the car runs lovely now, until it gets a short distance away from me, and then it either starts twitching itself or wont respond to controls. I have to walk closer until it responds.

I've tried moving the receiver a little which did improve the distance, but I'm really restricted as to where I put it as there's no room left on the chassis.

I'm running a 27mhz AM setup.

Can anyone shed any light on this problem? could it be interference?

[JJ The Boat Wizzard]

Hi m8

Firstly What connecters are you using its down to the amps not the Voltage also what spedo is it because apart from the TOP end orion one i think the lowest motor you can run is a 6.5Turn so witch version is that??

What car is it in , and do you have anouther radio you can test it with??

Hope this helps
John

[littlened]

Originally Posted by JJ The Boat Wizzard

Hi m8

Firstly What connecters are you using its down to the amps not the Voltage also what spedo is it because apart from the TOP end orion one i think the lowest motor you can run is a 6.5Turn so witch version is that??

What car is it in , and do you have anouther radio you can test it with??

Hope this helps
John

The ESC I have is
http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFun...n&ItemID=32103
Can cope with 3.5t or over according to the spec

At the minute I have the battery connected to the car using 240v screw connectors, what you'd use to connect a cooker to the mains. I've got some of these on order
http://www.apexmodels.com/gbu0-catsh...onnectors.html
will these be suitable?

The car is a lazer zx-5. I do have an FM radio set which I was about to return because I didn't need it.

When I push forward on the controller, the steering twitches slightly and you can feel the motor stopping and starting very briefly.

[sosidge]

The ESC you have is a sensorless one (despite the slightly misleading way they name it). Compared to the sensored controllers most use for racing, sensorless controllers are not as smooth at initial throttle. This may be part of the problem - although I think the main problem is interference or voltage drop under load.

Diagnosing radio faults can be a bit of a nightmare though...

Try removing the equipment from the car, spreading it far apart, and testing again. If there is no glitching then you can be pretty sure it is something to do with your installation. To be honest those mains terminals you are using are not going to be very well shielded, equally you need to make sure the wires and joints are all in good condition and are not rubbing against anything that may conduct electricity (and that includes carbon fibre and carbon composite parts)

If the equipment still glitches, it is something to do with the equipment itself. Check the ESC has all the capacitors fitted as recommended. Try and substitute each part of the system for known-good alternatives and see what is at fault. I would be a little wary of the basic 27MHz AM radio, these are not always as good at resisting interference as more expensive equipment (although if it is the Kyosho radio then these are Futaba-made and are generally good quality for the price).

You also need to make sure the battery is fully charged and that you are not testing it when flat. Not only does that increase the chance of problems caused by voltage dropping under load, it is also likely to damage the cells.

Hope this helps.

[RichB]

That's good advice above. Those connectors should be fine, assuming they're 4mm as it doesn't say on the website. One more Q: how have you mounted the Rx aerial, including the 'spare' wire? If you run the wire out of the top of the aerial tube and double it back down, this effectively 'cancels' the signal and will reduce the range.

[mdb_75]

Originally Posted by sosidge

The ESC you have is a sensorless one (despite the slightly misleading way they name it). Compared to the sensored controllers most use for racing, sensorless controllers are not as smooth at initial throttle. This may be part of the problem -

The Orion Vortex is a sensored esc although it will run sensorless too.

I use one which works fine using Lipos, but for some reason sometimes drops from sensored mode to sensoress when using my reasonaly old nimh's.

[littlened]

Thanks for all the advice so far,

I've switched from using the 27mhz am set to a 40mhz techniplus set, this included replacing the servo as well. For most part this has resolved 'most' of the issues, it certainly doesn't cut out as much as there isn't half as much servo twitching.

However a couple of problem that exist;

1) From a standstill, under full throttle, the steering veers left, every time.
2) From a distance away it still seems a little spluttery, especially under accelleration.

I've checked the settings on the ESC, and it's set not to cut out, and I've altered the power profile to be extra smooth.

I'm at a point now where I think I may either have to switch to lipo batteries(expensive) or buy a new brushed motor and ESC (maybe 10t), as I think I stand more chance of those working. I dont really want to go lipo, it's just too expensive at the minute, and the batteries I am using seemed to be the best I could get hold of.

[bigred5765]

this is just down to poor radio equipment, and like of power from the bec unit inside,

[littlened]

Originally Posted by bigred5765

this is just down to poor radio equipment, and like of power from the bec unit inside,

What's the easiest way to solve this problem and get the car running? Am I best of reverting to a brushed motor rather than brushless?

It seems the radio equipment that came with the car doesn't work, a seperate radio kit I've bought doesn't work. They're obviously not getting enough power, and I can't see different connectors really making a different when I have the cables screwed together with high voltage connectors at the minute.

It seems my only alternative is to go brushed, where hopefully it doesn't demand as much power. It's a shame because this motor and ESC are quick as shit off a stick, but I can't justify buying more new radio gear and upgrading to lipo batteries and a charger.

[bigred5765]

the cheaper recievers are well known for low bec voltage,

[sosidge]

Originally Posted by mdb_75

The Orion Vortex is a sensored esc although it will run sensorless too.

I use one which works fine using Lipos, but for some reason sometimes drops from sensored mode to sensoress when using my reasonaly old nimh's.

The high-end KO-based one is sensored. The cheap one linked to is not.

[sosidge]

Originally Posted by littlened

What's the easiest way to solve this problem and get the car running? Am I best of reverting to a brushed motor rather than brushless?

It seems the radio equipment that came with the car doesn't work, a seperate radio kit I've bought doesn't work. They're obviously not getting enough power, and I can't see different connectors really making a different when I have the cables screwed together with high voltage connectors at the minute.

It seems my only alternative is to go brushed, where hopefully it doesn't demand as much power. It's a shame because this motor and ESC are quick as shit off a stick, but I can't justify buying more new radio gear and upgrading to lipo batteries and a charger.

Brushed will be more likely to suffer from interference. The problem is more likely down to low-cost/faulty equipment than the type of equipment.

You say the radio that came with the car was faulty? Was it faulty with the kit motor and speed controller? If so, you should be talking to the shop you bought it from to get it sorted, rather than buying new gear yourself.

Acoms gear is not good unfortunately... probably a step back from the Kyosho branded gear.

[littlened]

Originally Posted by sosidge

Brushed will be more likely to suffer from interference. The problem is more likely down to low-cost/faulty equipment than the type of equipment.

You say the radio that came with the car was faulty? Was it faulty with the kit motor and speed controller? If so, you should be talking to the shop you bought it from to get it sorted, rather than buying new gear yourself.

Acoms gear is not good unfortunately... probably a step back from the Kyosho branded gear.

The kyosho gear wasn't faulty, there was just alot more interfance than what I'm getting with the techniplus kit.

When I had the kyosho radio gear, motor and ESC, everything was fine.

[littlened]

Originally Posted by sosidge

The high-end KO-based one is sensored. The cheap one linked to is not.

It's strange that they provide a sensor cable for a non sensored ESC, why would they do that? is there any benefit to having it connected as it works with and without the cable.

[sosidge]

Originally Posted by littlened

It's strange that they provide a sensor cable for a non sensored ESC, why would they do that? is there any benefit to having it connected as it works with and without the cable.

I'm sorry, I'm mistaken. I'm getting confused with the other cheap one they do. It is sensored then.

[littlened]

Originally Posted by sosidge

I'm sorry, I'm mistaken. I'm getting confused with the other cheap one they do. It is sensored then.

Fix my problem and you're forgiven

But seriously, am I best of buying new radio gear? something like this?
http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFun...on&ItemID=1971

I'm wary of buying more radio gear for the problem to still exist and I end up buying more stuff to fix it. Especially when so far I've paid for the car, and just spent 200 quid on new weeks, tyres, esc motor, connectors etc. At the minute it stands me at over 400 quid and the bugger doesn't run right.

[sosidge]

Originally Posted by littlened

Fix my problem and you're forgiven

But seriously, am I best of buying new radio gear? something like this?
http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFun...on&ItemID=1971

I'm wary of buying more radio gear for the problem to still exist and I end up buying more stuff to fix it. Especially when so far I've paid for the car, and just spent 200 quid on new weeks, tyres, esc motor, connectors etc. At the minute it stands me at over 400 quid and the bugger doesn't run right.

That's basically the same equipment as in the Lazer RTR anyway - not worth buying.

If you are thinking of upgrading (with sticks) I wouldn't look at anything below the Futaba 3GR, or perhaps the Sanwa Gemini 2. The Futaba in particular should be a radio for life, the Sanwa is not modular so will always be on 40MHz while everyone else is moving to 2.4gHz.

Although you should be able to get the car running on the kit gear, no reason why it shouldn't.

If you are ever in Bristol drop me a line and I will fix the car for you!

[littlened]

Originally Posted by sosidge

That's basically the same equipment as in the Lazer RTR anyway - not worth buying.

If you are thinking of upgrading (with sticks) I wouldn't look at anything below the Futaba 3GR, or perhaps the Sanwa Gemini 2. The Futaba in particular should be a radio for life, the Sanwa is not modular so will always be on 40MHz while everyone else is moving to 2.4gHz.

Although you should be able to get the car running on the kit gear, no reason why it shouldn't.

If you are ever in Bristol drop me a line and I will fix the car for you!

Thanks for the offer, but I'm all the way up in the north east.

A question about the batteries. The batteries are 6 cell and have cable on them. Once the new battery connectors come, am I ok just putting them on the end of the existing battery cable, or will I best best of using something thicker? The cable on the batteries at the minute is thinner than the cable being used on the ESC

[dibble34]

Hello Littlened

I had a lazer rtr with the standard radio gear which i upgraded to a 4.5 brushless setup. I had EXACTLY the same problems as you have described.

To make things better with the 27mhz am system i put the recielved up on the bar that goes front to back in the middle. I positioned it near the back on its side so the shell could still fit.

I also fitted a Spectrum power cap, one of these.

http://www.dms-racing.com/fruzat/qax...SQL/search.asp

(Hope DMS don't mind the link)

You need a spare slot in your reciever to plug it in

Make sure you have good quality new batteries in the Handset

This all made a big enough difference for me to get it round the local track without issue.

Long term i purchased an acoms 2.4ghz wheel set and have never had a problem since.

Hope this helps

[littlened]

Originally Posted by dibble34

Hello Littlened

I had a lazer rtr with the standard radio gear which i upgraded to a 4.5 brushless setup. I had EXACTLY the same problems as you have described.

To make things better with the 27mhz am system i put the recielved up on the bar that goes front to back in the middle. I positioned it near the back on its side so the shell could still fit.

I also fitted a Spectrum power cap, one of these.

http://www.dms-racing.com/fruzat/qax...SQL/search.asp

(Hope DMS don't mind the link)

You need a spare slot in your reciever to plug it in

Make sure you have good quality new batteries in the Handset

This all made a big enough difference for me to get it round the local track without issue.

Long term i purchased an acoms 2.4ghz wheel set and have never had a problem since.

Hope this helps

Thanks Dibble,

Was this something along the lines of the 2.4ghz you got?

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFun...n&ItemID=28015

Did you fit the power cap to the kyosho receiver? as there's no spare slots on mine.

The acoms one I'm using now has a battery slot empty, what that do?