rumours rumours

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by DCM

I am shocked he knows the lyrics....... unless he got an under 10 girl in the house with her own CD player.... anything you need to get off your chest there Mark??? heehee

a niece that age when the song was out, its etched in my brain




as a side note i dont think we need a charge at 1c max for lipo, troakpower advise up to 2c with thier balancer in line, only reason i say this is , i charge my 4900 at 5 amps and my 3200 at 5 amps, purley for time, not performance. even then im at 1.5c
think it should be worded " charge no more than manufactures specs"

[Gayo]

SHY, good lipo lobbying !

I have lipos for the 2wd and the transmitter and it's ace ! I can't recommend it enough

I hope we will take the same route in la douce France. Thanks to the ROAR (Dawn Sanchez) for establishing a standard for the lipos in RC cars.

[SHY]

Originally Posted by Lee

Ok, looking at the roar rules they seem fairly sensible and cover the bases regarding safety, they also stipulate that by jan 09 that all lipo cells shall have a roar approved sticker.

Would it be ok in my proposal to state we should follow ROAR rules? Or is there a thing where the brca is stand alone and like to set a standard and not follow them?


I just want to get this write so it stands more of a chance of being voted on

Well, I guess BRCA will just follow the EFRA rules. And hence it will be an EFRA approval. Just point to the paragraphs in the ROAR rule or copy+paste all of into the proposal.

You must either make a new rule or point to an existing rule in the EFRA handbook (do you have it?)

We'll play it safe and stick to 1C for now. LiPos have no memory effect, so you just re-charge it without emtying it first. So you don't need much time. Morover I think we will see a 1C charge limit for ALL types of batteries.

/Hobby Lobbyist

[Lee]

Ok, this is what i have, what do people think, what would they like me to add or remove.

Edited bits in italics

Ammended to read:

3.1
Only rechargeable NiCd, NiMH cells rated at 1.2
volts nominal will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned
events. The size of the individual cell(s) to be:-
Diameter: 23.0mm +0/-1mm
Overall length: 43.0mm +0/-1.5mm
Measurements include original manufacturers
heat-shrink. Overall length is the maximum
length before attaching/soldering any link wires
or battery bars. Dimensions taken at ambient
temperature, and apply to new/unused cells as
submitted by the manufacturer. Cells must never
exceed 44.0 mm length after any ‘matching’ or
charging processes. All cells must have the original
manufacturer’s heatshrink substantially
intact. Weights of submitted samples will be
recorded to verify that production versions compare.
From 2008 onwards, it is intended to
amend the rule that cells must never exceed
43.0mm (including any distortion from charging).

Lithium Polymer battery packs may be used to power electric racing cars if a Certification
Of Compliance has been received and accepted by BRCA from the manufacturers of the
battery packs. The Certification of Compliance indicates that the Lithium Polymer cells
internal to the battery packs have been tested in accordance with UN T1-T8, the United
Nations Recommendations on the Transport of Dangerous Goods, Manual of Test and
Criteria (ST/SG/AC.10.11/Rev.4) and passed the acceptance criteria. Lithium Polymer
battery packs that do not have UN certification must pass the ROAR tests
and performed by the ROAR Li-Poly Test laboratory. Certification of Compliance to these
test requirements and acceptance criteria shall be provided by the Original Manufacturer
of the batteries. The Certification of Compliance will apply to all Lithium-Polymer products
from the Original Manufacturer and provided on a one time basis. The Certification of
Compliance can be sent directly to BRCA by the Original Manufacturer or supplied to
BRCA by the Value Added Manufacturer that distributes the batteries. A Value Added
Manufacturer must also provide BRCA a Statement of Origin identifying the Original
Manufacturer of the cells used in the battery pack and the number of battery packs
provided for sale within the United kingdom. The Value Added Manufacturer performs the
assembly of cells into battery packs, installs the hard protective case and provides the
electrical hook up points. The Original Manufacturer is the manufacturer of the individual
cells.

Li-Poly battery packs must have a hard, protective case that surrounds the cell(s) in

the racing application. A factory encased hard shell pack is mandated for race
durability reasons that stem from the vulnerability of Lipo cells to physical damage.
Any physical distortion, denting or puncture to the cells will cause either an immediate

or long term safety risk. A hard cased pack reduces this risk significantly by protecting
the cells from crash damage, battery ejection, and general wear and tear at the track.
ROAR defines the "hard case" as a case made of ABS or similar type material. The
case shall consist of two (2) halves with each half being constructed from a single
mould that is not easily pliable and retains it shape without any exterior or interior
support. Both the top and bottom sections of the case must be secured together by
glue, double-sided tape or heat seal with a label across the seam stating "ROAR
Approved" in such a manner that separation of the case to remove or replace the cells
will destroy the case and/or label and render it unusable in competition. The case
must be installed by the manufacturer or Value added manufacturer no end User
installed cases are acceptable. The case will protect the cells from damage on all
sides and will completely cover all cells having only openings for wire connections.
Any modification to the factory approved hard case will make the pack ineligible for
participation in BRCA events.
Note: Approved batteries will be required to have "ROAR Approved" Label
across the seam by Jan 2009. ROAR will have a grandfather clause until Jan
2009 for all approved cells at competition on the Label rule.
The maximum case size shall be as follows:
Length: 139mm +0mm/-3mm
Width: 47mm +0mm/-2mm

Height: 25.1mm +0mm/-3.0mm

3.2

All rechargeable batteries must meet BRCA

specifications before they will be approved by
the BRCA Electric Board. Details of newly
approved rechargeable batteries will be published
on the BRCA website. Only batteries
appearing on the official BRCA website homologation
list published in January will be legal for
use at BRCA sanctioned events from 1st.April

of that calendar year.


As you can see i have kept it fairly simple for the BRCA, if we follow the ROAR rules then it will save the BRCA (PW i assume) a lot of time and headaches testing the lipo cells.

If anyone thinks this should be ammended in any way let me know, once we have the BRCA one sorted i will transpose brca for EFRA and get that one done too. We dont want to be buying new cells for the euros

[MattW]

You don't really need to write the rules for LiPo - because the EB is already doing something for the pro stock class in touring car. So just adopt that. There is a list of allowed LiPo's, so should be no problem.

[Lee]

Cheers Matt,

Ammend 3.1 to read

Only rechargeable NiCd, NiMH and LIPO cells which are on the approved EB list will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events.



That was easy

[mobile chicane]

wow good work guys, as soon as lipo isd the standard I'm getting another for my cars and a pack for my transmitter GO LIPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Lee]

I expect a sample from the lipo manufacture`s if it gets approved

[Alfonzo]

Good work Lee, et al. Lipo is the future. Bring it on

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by SHY

We'll play it safe and stick to 1C for now. LiPos have no memory effect, so you just re-charge it without emtying it first. So you don't need much time. Morover I think we will see a 1C charge limit for ALL types of batteries.

/Hobby Lobbyist

its club meetigs that dont have much time

Originally Posted by Lee

Ok, this is what i have, what do people think, what would they like me to add or remove.



Note: Approved batteries will be required to have "ROAR Approved" Label

across the seam by Jan 2009. ROAR will have a grandfather clause until Jan


2009 for all approved cells at competition on the Label rule.


The maximum case size shall be as follows:


Length: 139mm +0mm/-3mm


Width: 47mm +0mm/-2mm

Height: 25.1mm +0mm/-3.0mm

3.2

All rechargeable batteries must meet BRCA

specifications before they will be approved by

the BRCA Electric Board. Details of newly


approved rechargeable batteries will be published


on the BRCA website. Only batteries


appearing on the official BRCA website homologation


list published in January will be legal for


use at BRCA sanctioned events from 1st.April

of that calendar year.

As you can see i have kept it fairly simple for the BRCA, if we follow the ROAR rules then it will save the BRCA (PW i assume) a lot of time and headaches testing the lipo cells.

If anyone thinks this should be ammended in any way let me know, once we have the BRCA one sorted i will transpose brca for EFRA and get that one done too. We dont want to be buying new cells for the euros

the current brca packs have a label dont think it needs to say "roar aproved" for brca use

finally

dimensions

to go 25mm you rule out just about all saddle packs over 3200 capacity

[MattW]

Lee, in principle, that is all you need. I could be wrong, but i have a feeling there are a couple of other rules that would need a small tweak as well - like the one talking about max of 6 cells etc

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Lee

Cheers Matt,

Ammend 3.1 to read

Only rechargeable NiCd, NiMH and LIPO cells which are on the approved EB list will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events.

Mark,

Do you think this one is a better proposal then?

Would you still be happy to second it?

[Cockerill]

Do we need as many rules as what is already set by the BRCA for touring cars. Is there really a need for size and capacity limitations in off-road? We can easily make 5 mins on a 3200 Lipo and we can already easily over power our cars. If people want to try and shoe horn a 10000mah battery into there car then go for it, it wouldn't bother me as I see no advantage.

Could we not just use simple rules such as:

Max 7.4v
Must be Hard Cased
+ The Safety Rules as mentioned by BRCA/ROAR Rules

[Chris Doughty]

I have a 8000mAh pack and a 5000mAh pack and there is no differance in performance at all other than weight (the 8000 being heavier obviously)

runtime obviously is different but who cares if you can make 20 minutes or 35 minutes when we are running 5 minute races?

[Lee]

Ok so this might be a little better

Ammend 3.1 to read

Only rechargeable NiCd, NiMH cells which are on the approved EB list and LIPO batteries with a Max 7.4v, which are also Hard Cased and follow the Safety Rules as mentioned by BRCA/ROAR Rules shall be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events.

[Lee]

The last thing i was is to propose something and then, for people to say that they wish "item X" had of been included, i would also like it to have a pretty strong case for anyone who is against lipo. I dont want it to be rejected in other words

[Chris Doughty]

I thought the idea of proposing something was just that.

you propose the idea, the exact wording can be adjusted or made 'tight'

we are not expected to be legal hot-shots and able to write perfect rules

[Lee]

CD, do you think post 135 would be acceptable then?

It gives an idea of what we want but not too much info for people to pick holes in.

[SHY]

Originally Posted by Cockerill

Do we need as many rules as what is already set by the BRCA for touring cars. Is there really a need for size and capacity limitations in off-road? We can easily make 5 mins on a 3200 Lipo and we can already easily over power our cars. If people want to try and shoe horn a 10000mah battery into there car then go for it, it wouldn't bother me as I see no advantage.

Could we not just use simple rules such as:

Max 7.4v
Must be Hard Cased
+ The Safety Rules as mentioned by BRCA/ROAR Rules

Agree! K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Did the ROAR rules say anything as to dimension???

[Lee]

Originally Posted by SHY

Agree! K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Did the ROAR rules say anything as to dimension???

Yes they did shy, that was where the 25mm dimension came from


I think the proposal in post #135 is about right