BRCA EB Battery Regs Announced

[Lee]

but if you removed the regional bit from that paragraph, he would be correct

[neiloliver]

Originally Posted by David Church

I bet there will be legal size lipo saddle packs for this year!!! How much you guys wana bet????? Lol..........

Im not a betting man DC!

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I think this is a loose loose situaion for everyone. What would happen if no legal saddles came out only sticks there would be uproar with people complaining about unfair advantage for the stick runners so they ban sticks for 4wd to make it fair, then the people with lipo cats will be out of pocket as well like I say loose loose situation and a big can of worms.

[matdodd]

They cant do that though can they? & if they can. cant they just change the dimensions of saddle pack lipos and we can all just get on with racing & having a laugh!

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Spencer Mulcahy

I think this is a loose loose situaion for everyone. What would happen if no legal saddles came out only sticks there would be uproar with people complaining about unfair advantage for the stick runners so they ban sticks for 4wd to make it fair, then the people with lipo cats will be out of pocket as well like I say loose loose situation and a big can of worms.

I realy wish I culd spell.

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by matdodd

They cant do that though can they? & if they can. cant they just change the dimensions of saddle pack lipos and we can all just get on with racing & having a laugh!

I dont know if they can do it but it could happen, it would be easier to allow the saddle lipos.

[Garry Driffill]

We all knew it was going to happen enentually though all of this - There was nothing to go by when buying youre LiPo!

[3975dave]

Originally Posted by Northy

WRONG

I suggest you get your rule book out for a read, just to help you it's on page 32 of the 2008 book.

4. SANCTIONED EVENTS
4.1 Off-Road Sanctioned events include the
National Championship Series, Regional
Championship Series, Indoor Finals, Junior &
Veterans’ Championship, British Regional
Championship (BRC) and the Inter-Regional
F3/F4/F5 Championship. It is possible that further
specific events could be sanctioned by the
committee.

G

Would it not be a good idea to relax this rule for this coming season so as not to affect the turnout at some regional series??
I for one will not be buying another pack this year and I very much doubt I am the only one.

[mutie]

Club drivers often race to a strict budget, i think they should be encouraged to take part in their respective regional championships with their club gear... it is after all the stepping stone to the national level.

Not allowing youngsters / newbies to take part in a regional championship and to taste proper competition, just because their cells are 2 or three mm too big sucks major arse. I believe there are shades of grey here. I for one do not believe there would be any significant advantage anyway.

As for the national level drivers, that is a different ball game.... For the sake of the national series i very much hope they sort a set of saddles out for the list....

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by matdodd

They cant do that though can they? & if they can. cant they just change the dimensions of saddle pack lipos and we can all just get on with racing & having a laugh!

So the manufacturers have been told the dimensions that are required for legal cells, which happen to be the same dimensions that ROAR have been running to for a year, and the manufacturers have from the end of November when they were told the dimensions until the end of January to submit legal packs. Not much time, but I'm sure some companies will have put in the work.
Now how do you think the manufacturers who have submitted packs to Paul Worsley would feel if they are then told that the BRCA committee will be changing the rules to let bigger cells in as well at BRCA meetings.

Then what happens about any country using EFRA rules which would then need an EGM to change their rules.

Personally I hope there are saddle packs on the EB list, if there are I might finally consider lipo. Unlike most here I race and bash with 8 different saddle pack cars and have 10 packs of saddle pack nimhs. If there are EFRA legal lipo packs I would be able to use them, Trakpower cells are useless to me as they don't fit any of my cars and I cant modify them just to fit one lipo pack as I would not be able to use my nimhs in them.

[Chrislong]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

So the manufacturers have been told the dimensions that are required for legal cells, which happen to be the same dimensions that ROAR have been running to for a year, and the manufacturers have from the end of November when they were told the dimensions until the end of January to submit legal packs. Not much time, but I'm sure some companies will have put in the work.
Now how do you think the manufacturers who have submitted packs to Paul Worsley would feel if they are then told that the BRCA committee will be changing the rules to let bigger cells in as well at BRCA meetings.

The line I have bolderdised, this suggests that there will be legal saddle pack lipos. If this is so, then great, and no need to relax any rules.

But if no companies put in the work & we have no saddle lipos for 2009 but then the rules are relaxed for 12months and oversize cells only accepted by the EB on the proviso that they do have cells within the size regs within 12months, then no company is offended & the racers will respect that what they're using is only due to the good will of the EB/BRCA and won't take them abroad when racing Euros or anything else.

Correct me if im wrong though.

This situation really is a wait and see one, if saddle lipos do make it on, even if just one pack - then this discussion is void. Im holding some hope.

[Northy]

Originally Posted by 3975dave

Would it not be a good idea to relax this rule for this coming season so as not to affect the turnout at some regional series??
I for one will not be buying another pack this year and I very much doubt I am the only one.

Again, it is not possible to pick and choose which rules have to be and don't have to be followed at regionals. It is all laid out in the rule book.

G

[SHY]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

So the manufacturers have been told the dimensions that are required for legal cells, which happen to be the same dimensions that ROAR have been running to for a year, and the manufacturers have from the end of November when they were told the dimensions until the end of January to submit legal packs. Not much time, but I'm sure some companies will have put in the work.
Now how do you think the manufacturers who have submitted packs to Paul Worsley would feel if they are then told that the BRCA committee will be changing the rules to let bigger cells in as well at BRCA meetings.

Then what happens about any country using EFRA rules which would then need an EGM to change their rules.

Personally I hope there are saddle packs on the EB list, if there are I might finally consider lipo. Unlike most here I race and bash with 8 different saddle pack cars and have 10 packs of saddle pack nimhs. If there are EFRA legal lipo packs I would be able to use them, Trakpower cells are useless to me as they don't fit any of my cars and I cant modify them just to fit one lipo pack as I would not be able to use my nimhs in them.

That's not entirely correct. ROAR has relaxed the rules for saddles. They simply seem to be using common sense in that matter IMHO the EB should have contacted ROAR even before ROAR finalized their rules, then we would have had ONE set of specs only. For the chassis manufacturers it's now a mess... The EB should have realized that they were too late as to dictating the rules and settled for the existing ROAR rules.

ROAR: (US & Canada)
Length 139mm, width 47mm, height 25,1mm
Relaxed rules for saddles
No capacity limitations

EFRA: (Europe, rules & approvals by the EB)
Lenght 139mm, width 47mm, height 23,5mm
Saddles combined length max 139mm
Max capacity 5500 mAh

Btw. does anyone know the situation in FEMCA (Far East) and FAMAR (South America)? And what will the situation be for IFMAR (Worlds)?

And... I know the BRCA touring LiPo list for 2008 is not valid anymore. But what was the size rules when that list was made?

As to coming cars/updates I think most manufacturers will either supply a NiMH or LiPo version. Or simply ship the kit with two sets of trays: One for NiMH and one for LiPo. For instance converting the B44 from NiMH to LiPo is VERY easy! A Diggity Designs conversion kit and the 4800 TrakPower saddles drop right in, no dremeling needed! You can never expect an old chassis to be "prepared for the future"

[RLGfx]

how to kill off a class of racing........

[DaveG28]

I'd like to know the Ifmar/far east rules too, can't see Yok/Tam doing Lipo cars until they are allowed!?

The thing I don't quite follow is if Roar have had the rules for a year but just relaxed for saddles as none fit, how come a year later there still aren't any? Or is the ROAR rule just totally different?

I did spot what looked like a hard cased saddle in LRP wrapping at the weekend, but don't know if it really was, or what size it was!

[SHY]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

I'd like to know the Ifmar/far east rules too, can't see Yok/Tam doing Lipo cars until they are allowed!?

The thing I don't quite follow is if Roar have had the rules for a year but just relaxed for saddles as none fit, how come a year later there still aren't any? Or is the ROAR rule just totally different?

I did spot what looked like a hard cased saddle in LRP wrapping at the weekend, but don't know if it really was, or what size it was!

Well, who knows! We don't have inside information - so we just have to guess. My personal guess is that it was impossible or not practical to make saddles small enough to fit the size specs. Remember as opposed to NiMH you must have all bars/soldering/wires INSIDE the casing, in addition to the hard casing itself. While NiMH cells are measured without bars/wires/connectors. This is a logical breach! First of all mixing LiPos with NiMH cells is mixing apples with oranges. Furthermore - since the EB was so insistent on the rules being consistent - why is it you measure "bare" NiMH cells and complete LiPo packs???

So... in the US I guess nobody made small enough LiPo packs. I'm sure it can be done, but the burst rating and capacity would be quite small - hence not a very tempting solution anyways. I'm guessing 2000-2500 mAh'ish... Maybe still possible to use for 1:10 OR, but defo useless for touring (if they allow it later). And you'd anyway loose the fantastic long runtime you can enjoy during practise.

Good capacity and powerful hardcased LiPo were on the market - and the drivers wanted to use them - so they used common sence in the US and relaxed the rules. It doesen't take much common sense to understand that a hardcasing of two sets of cells must be bigger than one set...

I'd really wish that the organizations could start to cooperate more, we all have common interests here!

It know it may sound radical, but I don't see why we couldn't all follow IFMAR rules. EFRA could then just be a sub-organization of IFMAR. Doing what they do today, but all rules would be IFMAR rules. Furthermore I really hope the EFRA restructuring will happen, it would be great to have fully employed (paid) officials. Imagine how much good could have been done then! And no more "volunteer work on your spare time"...

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Northy

Again, it is not possible to pick and choose which rules have to be and don't have to be followed at regionals. It is all laid out in the rule book.

G

it is possible to have an amemndment made to relax the rule should a EGM? be called by the members!

Originally Posted by SHY

That's not entirely correct. ROAR has relaxed the rules for saddles. They simply seem to be using common sense in that matter IMHO the EB should have contacted ROAR even before ROAR finalized their rules, then we would have had ONE set of specs only. For the chassis manufacturers it's now a mess... The EB should have realized that they were too late as to dictating the rules and settled for the existing ROAR rules.

ROAR: (US & Canada)
Length 139mm, width 47mm, height 25,1mm
Relaxed rules for saddles
No capacity limitations

EFRA: (Europe, rules & approvals by the EB)
Lenght 139mm, width 47mm, height 23,5mm
Saddles combined length max 139mm
Max capacity 5500 mAh

Btw. does anyone know the situation in FEMCA (Far East) and FAMAR (South America)? And what will the situation be for IFMAR (Worlds)?

And... I know the BRCA touring LiPo list for 2008 is not valid anymore. But what was the size rules when that list was made?

As to coming cars/updates I think most manufacturers will either supply a NiMH or LiPo version. Or simply ship the kit with two sets of trays: One for NiMH and one for LiPo. For instance converting the B44 from NiMH to LiPo is VERY easy! A Diggity Designs conversion kit and the 4800 TrakPower saddles drop right in, no dremeling needed! You can never expect an old chassis to be "prepared for the future"

cheers for beating me again

well made reply, dont forget in the use maxamps must be the biggest usa lipo company, after a year they dont have as yet a legal pack, that must say somthing!!

[Belsten]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

I'd like to know the Ifmar/far east rules too, can't see Yok/Tam doing Lipo cars until they are allowed!?

The thing I don't quite follow is if Roar have had the rules for a year but just relaxed for saddles as none fit, how come a year later there still aren't any? Or is the ROAR rule just totally different?

I did spot what looked like a hard cased saddle in LRP wrapping at the weekend, but don't know if it really was, or what size it was!

I believe Craggy was running them in his B44

[SHY]

Originally Posted by Belsten

I believe Craggy was running them in his B44

100% sure they were hardcased?

Not these by any chance?

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Belsten

I believe Craggy was running them in his B44

you surethey wernt reedy one he had or was that bradders? carnt see neil running lrp when he is reedy/nosram