A Double and Three Halves

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by showtime

i think you're getting a little distracted by the telemetry thing

posted earlier was the section in the rulebook that prohibits the use of telemetry or sending information back to the driver.
these don't send information back to the driver they send to the timing computer via the loop. the driver(unless he's driving from racecontrol) wont be able to see this information

he'll just benefit from using a smaller, lighter, more power efficient transponder that sends its code twice as often

the rule does NOT say transmitted to the driver, it says may NOT be tra nsmited if you want to quote rules do it properly

[rob8246]

Any piece of technology which improves our hobby is good in my opinion

[showtime]

if you want to be pedantic i didn't actually quote any of the rules i merely mentioned that somebody had posted a section form the book earlier in the thread

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by showtime

if you want to be pedantic i didn't actually quote any of the rules i merely mentioned that somebody had posted a section form the book earlier in the thread

Originally Posted by showtime

i think you're getting a little distracted by the telemetry thing

posted earlier was the section in the rulebook that prohibits the use of telemetry or sending information back to the driver.
these don't send information back to the driver they send to the timing computer via the loop. the driver(unless he's driving from racecontrol) wont be able to see this information

he'll just benefit from using a smaller, lighter, more power efficient transponder that sends its code twice as often

your post says that it can not send info back to the driver, not what it says in the rule i qouted from the book!!

[bbkRob]

Well here we are and if you are racing outdoors today good for you. I was talking to Adrian at Remote World last evening and they have a meeting planned for today. I was hoping to take some Harrys there but they didn't make the journey across the North Sea last week. I'm hoping to have some coming week and as soon as I have them there will be a picture AND a price.

On the subject of price, I'm painfully aware that PTs have got more and more expensive since they were released in 2002, so let me explain why.

First off, the way to keep a product cheap is to constantly re engineer it to take advantage of technology and manufacturing advances. If you manufacture in places like China you can expect copies to start coming out of the back door within months, so you have to keep changing the thing to stand a chance of staying in business. Short product life has the effect of devaluing the old model. As someone pointed out, a PT makes it possible to automatically count laps, so you don't have to keep giving it a new name. You don't get a better time if you have a read one or a blue one. One of the unique properties of the PT is that you could have bought one in 2002 for less than £40 and sell it today (OK a couple of weeks ago) for £60 or more. What else in your car could you do that with? Over the years I have regularly seen ebay used transponder auctions go beyond the bbk website price for new.

So why were they so cheap in 2002? When the PT was released it was at an introductory price that was deliberately low. That price was €48 plus VAT. At that time the Euro was worth about 62p. If you do the maths that works out at just under £30 + VAT so I was churning them out at £350 for 10. In retrospect early adopters got a very good deal, which is as it should be. Good Times.

By 2003 the introductory price has come to an end and the price €58 + VAT. The exchange rate was moving slowly and got to the Euro being worth about 74p.

In the early days PTs were being bought in bulk by the clubs, which meant there were savings on shipping and quantity discounts. Some clubs sold on to the drivers at say £5 a week or even subsidised the cost.

Since then PTs have crept upwards the current price of €77 + VAT, which compared with the initial (not introductory price) of €58 + VAT I don't think is that bad. If the exchange rate had held that would be about £50 + VAT today.

Sadly we had the economic miracle! An economy boosted by unsustainable debt.

That has really punished us in the UK with the steady decline in the value of the £ and the sudden collapse in 2008 when the chickens came home to roost. Right now the £ keeps lurching towards parity with the € then it pulls back a little. Most long term predictions are that it will cross the parity point and once it does it will keep going. I really hope not, but there is not much any of us can do about that.

Right, I'm off to buy loads of stuff before VAT goes up after Christmas. More tomorrow.

[SlowOne]

If you believe that, you'll believe anything!!

Dell, Apple, Sony, Matsushita, Boeing, Airbus, GE, Rolls-Royce, BAe, Westland, Nokia and Motorola are just a few of the companies that have things made in China despite their high-technology content. They have been doing this for upwards of 15 years, and yet I don't see Chinese copies of their products! That angle is paranoia on AMB's part.

Another angle on this is that AMB have no direct competition, and they would be idiots not to take advantage of that position. Where a small competitor has emerged, AMB has refused point blank to co-operate with allocation of numbers (and why would they) leaving the market open only to clones, not originals. Result - AMB have a monopoly that they have ruthlessly exploited - that's business, and that's what any shareholder would expect a business to do.

Please spare me the "exchange rate's gone bad" and "we've been living on borrowed time" excuses. AMB have done what any good company with a technology monopoly would have done, and does do - jacked the price.

I don't blame them for one minute, and it is the price of going racing. I did get one in 2003 which is now worth a lot more than the £32 I paid for it, but when I wanted another one AMB were worse than useless, so I switched to MRT.

If anyone on here is complaining about the price, then I'd be happy to set up a 'number exchange', whereby people living in different countries could 'lease' their numbers out, thus enabling MRT to clone transponders that are almost never going to turn up at the same race meeting. It's called a free market, and AMB had better realise that consumers will not be price gouged forever, and that when they decide not to be, it usually results in that company losing its market. Notice that IBM are not on the list above...

[DCM]

I find it hard to see how, an item so small, can cost so much, even factoring in the cost of re-tooling and what not, global sales can't be 'low' and people only pay the cost as there is no alternative, if you don't already have a PT.

[bodgit]

It costs so much because people are willing to pay. If nobody buys them then they have to sell at lower realistic prices. korea makes phones and Im sure they could make these at a price more affordable to the market.

[MRD]

If AMB are finding it so hard to make the PT's for a reasonable cost then may I sugest hiring the MRT staff, because they manage to make a smaller, cheaper and better PT with no problems .

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by MRD

If AMB are finding it so hard to make the PT's for a reasonable cost then may I sugest hiring the MRT staff, because they manage to make a smaller, cheaper and better PT with no problems .

[chris68nufc]

Still think that this thread has just caused the racers to get a bit edgy. I thought hat it was going to end with a great new product for hardly any money! Really doesnt sound like it though does it? I will, like many others stick with my original PT and get MRT to clone one for me.

[steelie600]

i used to race motorbikes very competitively and obviously i needed a pt. Again it HAD to be an AMB it one, can you guess what i paid for it in 1999??????

175 pounds SECOND HAND!!!!!

When I got invited to do some european races I had to get a BLUE transponder, and oweing to the price I had to hire one. It was just too expensive to buy one for only a few races.

The price of the standard red one is now 368 euros!!!!!!! come on thats chuffin extortion!!!!!!!! the Blue one (its blue cos its reconned to work at speeds over 300kph where as the red one wont apparently) isnt even listed any more but i reckon its double that!! It was double the price in 2002.

the rc tranny is listed as 91 euros which i reckon youd pay the same in pounds by the time its in your hands.

I know AMB have done all the research into race timing etc and they have the lions share, but surely there is no need at all to price them that high. After all, it is only a pulsing transmitter of a certain binary code!!

[Mgtuser]

Originally Posted by MRD

If AMB are finding it so hard to make the PT's for a reasonable cost then may I sugest hiring the MRT staff, because they manage to make a smaller, cheaper and better PT with no problems .

yeah amazing how MRT can do it, but AMB cant....... ( or should we say, WONT... )

[dave g]

no they wont,because they have market monopoly.

and the racer/customer has to pay or do without.

[coolcars782]

If only mrt made pt's that wont clash with other people :

[Rocking Donkey]

I wonder if anyone has ever referred AMB to the monopolies commission

[ryanlownie]

Originally Posted by dave g

no they wont,because they have market monopoly.

and the racer/customer has to pay or do without.

Exactly.

[Dazzler]

Originally Posted by bbkRob

Right, I'm off to buy loads of stuff before VAT goes up after Christmas. More tomorrow.

Rob, We are waiting.......................

Or are you still lugging all that shopping back where you saved a whopping 2.5%

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by coolcars782

If only mrt made pt's that wont clash with other people :

They do. The PTX can select any of the numbers from 1 to 10. Buy one, turn up, select the number you are in your heat, drive, have laps counted!

Nonetheless, my offer of setting up a number exchange still stands!!

[Battle_axe]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

They do. The PTX can select any of the numbers from 1 to 10. Buy one, turn up, select the number you are in your heat, drive, have laps counted!

Nonetheless, my offer of setting up a number exchange still stands!!

i think the exchange is a good idea would be more than happy to help you out if u like