Ansmann Pro-X build

[DaveG28]

If the madrat has the same dimensions, just a different material, then most tools/moulds are presumably used for both the pro-x and the madrat. As I saw a quote from Ansmann saying they had 3000 Madrats i Europe alone, then I am guesing a big part of the cheapness is they can amortise the fixed costs of said tooling etc over a larger volume (R&D also). Plus you have the truck versions etc.

I'm not aware of a kyosho version of the madrat (eg cheaper material rb5), or for that matter the Losi, though correct me if I am wrong??

And just one thing Fabs, if its a copy of the rb5 and also a copy of a losi chassis and b4 rear, erm doesn't that kind of suggest Kyosho cheapened on r&d too as they must have also copide the losi chassis/b4 rear musn't they??

[Si Coe]

To be honest, even without calipers I reckon I could draw up a reasonable 2wd car in no time at all. I mean you go on about it being a copy of the RB5, but lets be honest the Kyosho isn't exactly wildly different from the B4, or the XXX before that. And the XXX was very similar to the XX, and the B3 etc.

Modern 2wd race cars work on the basis of a few very simple principles and it results in very similar cars. As long as I incorporate these features into my design it will be competent car, even if not an exceptional one.

The same tricks have been used for cheap 1/8ths, and TC's too.

The only difference between what Team C did and Kyosho is that Kyosho then take the basic design around the world and test it, making lots of tiny changes to make their buggy not just 'like a B4' but 'better than a B4'. Team C simply marketed their largely untested creation.

The result is that Madrats and X Pros are suffering from T-Piece breakages because they weren't tested on UK tracks and can't take the conditions we race under. Ansmann are addressing the problem, but were in effect using the paying customer for the R&D.

[DCM]

In the end, we could say, there are traits of the DNA of the ubiquitous 2wd layout, in all the 2wd buggies. And there is only so many variant on a theme before you get very 'similar' designs.

But, I don't mind talking about it, as it keeps this thread active, and keeps interest

[carty]

my T piece is fine after a days racing, im just to slow

[Jamie.T]

This discussion of which manufacturer copied who has already been discussed and is totally pointless. Its a dog eat dog world out there and EVERY manufacturer copies each other.

At the end of the day, Ansmann are selling a good car at a good price. Who cares about whos toes Team C (the manufacturer) stepped on to make the cars.

[Answer-RC-Pete]

Hey Jamie - what about music, film and software copying?

Would the copying / inspiration be more of an issue if someone had copied one of the Atomic Carbon designs from Jonathon?

Just a bit of devils advocate ;-)

[Jamie.T]

A- The mad rat is not a DIRECT copy of any car, but it has taken parts from other cars. Nothing that other suppliers havent done over the years.

B- The world is full of copies, this is what the chinese do best. If something is good, then they will copy it.

Who really cares. The end user is happy as he gets a good car at a very good price, and Ansmann are happy because their selling loads.

The old saying goes "if you cant beat em, join em" LOL

[DCM]

I remember the days, when we all used to tape the top 40 off Radio 1, on a Sunday afternoon, and no artist was worried about maybe losing royalty, now though, totally different. Maybe it is the world we live in, that we think we should not miss a penny on something that has been created.

So, do we go down the route, that no other car company should use the XX4 front suspension layout.... I also don't see people saying... hell, the D4 shouldn't be made, as it is a copy of the B44, with some changes, which is a copy of the BJ4WE, with a few changes....

We could keep going on... and on... and on about it, the car is being made, live with it guys..... the more cars in the market, the better!!

[carty]

the major plus for me is ansmann bits are cheap and can be got easily from almost anywhere, my yokomo and my kyosho were a nightmare always had to order then wait

[Si Coe]

By the way DCM - Did you know Team C make a cvd for associated wheels. You could probably order once from somewhere in the far east more easily than tacking on B4 bits.

And Jamie - I' sure that its ok for him to do that until you start stocking them!

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by DCM

I remember the days, when we all used to tape the top 40 off Radio 1, on a Sunday afternoon, and no artist was worried about maybe losing royalty, now though, totally different. Maybe it is the world we live in, that we think we should not miss a penny on something that has been created.

So, do we go down the route, that no other car company should use the XX4 front suspension layout.... I also don't see people saying... hell, the D4 shouldn't be made, as it is a copy of the B44, with some changes, which is a copy of the BJ4WE, with a few changes....

We could keep going on... and on... and on about it, the car is being made, live with it guys..... the more cars in the market, the better!!

Although, to be fair, Associated did a deal over the BJ4 didn't they?

I'm not that comfortable to be honest with some of the posts here saying it should just be a free for all. The other poster was right, would you still think that if someone nicked an atomic design? Or to stratch the analogy, if a competitor did it to the business you work for, meaning jobs were lost etc (I realise its not the case here but its the same principle).

And Jamie, would you still agree if Dinball just copy the ansmann and undercut you, rather than selling the same car?? You'd be fine with that presumably??

Having said that, its clear from the contradictory claims that it doesn't just copy one other car, and it does have its own moulds etc, and it does seem accepted practice in rc to start prototypes by using other companies kit then keeping the best bits and remoulding it yourself etc, so I don't see how Ansmann have done anything different to any other rc company..

[DCM]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

By the way DCM - Did you know Team C make a cvd for associated wheels. You could probably order once from somewhere in the far east more easily than tacking on B4 bits.

And Jamie - I' sure that its ok for him to do that until you start stocking them!

do you have a part number or even a web link please???

[Jamie.T]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

And Jamie - I' sure that its ok for him to do that until you start stocking them!

I persoanlly have no problem with that, but getting hold of Team C parts and upgrades overseas may proove difficult.

Originally Posted by DaveG28

And Jamie, would you still agree if Dinball just copy the ansmann and undercut you, rather than selling the same car?? You'd be fine with that presumably??

Dinball is a distributor, NOT a manufacturer. And Dinball have already tried selling Team C cars direct to the UK, but Ansmann quickly put a stop to it.

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by thomj316

Dinball is a distributor, NOT a manufacturer. And Dinball have already tried selling Team C cars direct to the UK, but Ansmann quickly put a stop to it.

I know, but it was mean't as a "what if". If they went out and made your car themselves but cheaper doubt you'd be so keen on it being a dog eat dog world. In fact it is strange that them importing was soooo bad whereas copying is supposedly all ok, given that both give people what they want (the same car but cheaper) thats why I highlighted it!! Both are covered by laws etc.

Having said that, AGAIN, I don't actually think the Pro-x is a straight RB5 copy. Otherwise there'd be an rb5 t-piece to use to fix the issue!

[DCM]

right, can we stop the 'who copied who and why' and the 'who sells what and where' debate.

Would like to know, what people are thinking of doing to their cars, upgrades wise.

[Jamie.T]

I personally dont believe in "1 rule for one, 1 rule for another" way of thinking. So if Dinball did make a car that was an Ansmann or Team C copy, then thats up to them. I would be a total hypocrite if i was to say it wasnt on.

I bet all the manufacturers have to put up with this every day. Its just part of the hobby.

[Chris Ward]

Originally Posted by DCM

do you have a part number or even a web link please???

I think he's talking about bottom left of this picture:

http://www.teamcracing.net/member/43...TC02_TC02T.jpg

Chris

[DCM]

Just seen it...... Ansmann best get their butts in gear, and get them bad boys in the UK!!

[Spoolio]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

Ansmann are addressing the problem, but were in effect using the paying customer for the R&D.

So, just like a TVR then .

(or 70's Lotus or 80's Aston, take your pick)

[Lee Martin]

If this annsman cars a copy of the RB5, Then the RB5 is a copy of a B4 gearbox, Steering Ackerman, rear tower....as they are almost identical to a B4, i know as i help Nick build his.

Then RB5 must have also copied the losi Chassis...as this is also the same as a losi. Same body mounting points and everything.........

so is the RB5 a copy?