Limit to the number of tyres you can use at Nationals

[wiliamconnorl]

Originally Posted by Reevsey

Having done 10th nats for many years where we are today is the best possible place, we have had a tyre rule that is consistent for every track and for the last couple of years, BB spike & Schumacher Mini spike, i can remember the days when we had Losi tyres at Kiddy, Proline/BB mini pin tyres at Tiverton and basically Schumacher mini spike and BB spike for all other tracks, all for one season!! not to mention if you went to a euros then you had a different tyre again. At the end of every season i ended up with tyres that i could not use over the winter and lots of money tied up in tyres that would wait for next years nats to use them up.

Now as some will know when i am at a national i am not shy when it comes to fitting new boots, but i don't see this as actualy costing me any more than a tyre rule would that limted tyres. If i where to do the same amount of 1/10th scale racing year on year with a tyre rule v No tyre rule all that would hapen is i would use less new ones at nationals but more new tyres at regionals and club meetings/winter series as i would not have as many part worn ones to use from nats. Over the course of the year i would use the same amount of tyres. So to conclude we could make nationals cheaper but would it really make your racing cheaper over the course of a year?

cheers mate great to know that

[TheReferee]

If you want a rule propose it, get someone to second it and then vote for it at the AGM.

however make sure you cover all the what ifs, for example your proposal is for 3 sets per national and a driver suffers a blow out on a tyre can he get a fourth set?, we have all seen tyres split so its not exactly a rare occurance.
you might think ok thats fair enough in the event of a tyre failure we will allow a replacement. of course no driver would deliberately cut a tyre causing a failure would he?.

remember also your proposal has to be implemented, how are they marked can it be copied and therefor could an extra set could be counterfeited in?.

how long would it take to get 120 drivers tyres marked and when and by who?. 1 minutes a set to register driver and mark of on list, mark with whatever, allow to dry, 120 x 1min=2 hours. if your last in the queue you just missed round one!.

don't get me wrong if you the racers want something then we the organisers will try to do it. however just voting on a simplistic proposal such as the one suggested is pointless.

for example i propose we run five rounds of qualifying instead of four. i will propose it at the agm get someone to second it. i am sure if we put it to the vote we could get a yes vote. unfortunately we cant implement it because it gets dark before we finish!!. now there are ways round it. start round one earlier?, ensure all clubs have floodlights?, cancel the lower finals?.

your tyre proposal comes under the same set of problems, yes we could have one but it isn't simple and will take a lot of effort in ensuring a system that works and is robust enough not to cause problems later on.

so propose away but make sure it is a detailed proposal that covers all the bases

[Smartalec]

Originally Posted by TheReferee

If you want a rule propose it, get someone to second it and then vote for it at the AGM.

however make sure you cover all the what ifs, for example your proposal is for 3 sets per national and a driver suffers a blow out on a tyre can he get a fourth set?, we have all seen tyres split so its not exactly a rare occurance.
you might think ok thats fair enough in the event of a tyre failure we will allow a replacement. of course no driver would deliberately cut a tyre causing a failure would he?.

remember also your proposal has to be implemented, how are they marked can it be copied and therefor could an extra set could be counterfeited in?.

how long would it take to get 120 drivers tyres marked and when and by who?. 1 minutes a set to register driver and mark of on list, mark with whatever, allow to dry, 120 x 1min=2 hours. if your last in the queue you just missed round one!.

don't get me wrong if you the racers want something then we the organisers will try to do it. however just voting on a simplistic proposal such as the one suggested is pointless.

for example i propose we run five rounds of qualifying instead of four. i will propose it at the agm get someone to second it. i am sure if we put it to the vote we could get a yes vote. unfortunately we cant implement it because it gets dark before we finish!!. now there are ways round it. start round one earlier?, ensure all clubs have floodlights?, cancel the lower finals?.

your tyre proposal comes under the same set of problems, yes we could have one but it isn't simple and will take a lot of effort in ensuring a system that works and is robust enough not to cause problems later on.

so propose away but make sure it is a detailed proposal that covers all the bases

Well said ref

[antnee]

It's the top end of our sport, the richest always have the best chance. Ferrari & mclaren, man utd & chelsea, etc

[Wraggy]

Originally Posted by antnee

It's the top end of our sport, the richest always have the best chance. Ferrari & mclaren, man utd & chelsea, etc

think you will find alot of it is down to the driver not the money u throw at it ...

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by Wraggy

think you will find alot of it is down to the driver not the money u throw at it ...

And ironically, Ferrari and Mclaren have tyre limits imposed as well....the argument it would be too hard to do may be valid, but the one that it's the pinnacle doesn't work for me, this is toys, in 1:1 racing virtually no major series has unlimited tyres, F1/indycar/touring cars, I don't see how if it's good for them it's bad for this.

The difference is they are only dealing with 20/30 cars each, and have the tyre manufacturer there to help police, so yes maybe it's too difficult for us, but still a good idea in my mind!

[Smartalec]

One of the main problems is of course at places like RHR where after round one this year I was sorting through my box of tyres to find a set WORN enough so I didn't grip role everywhere. This of course couldn't happen if i'd already had the new sets scrutineered so i'd end up cutting off ridiculous amounts of spikes from a new set that would probably not last the meeting and certainly wouldn't be any good for any regionals afterwards.

Get a grip guys (pun), no one uses silly amounts of tyres anymore and the savings that we've made elsewhere in the hobby more than cover the tyre costs anyway.

[matdodd]

Originally Posted by Smartalec

Get a grip guys (pun), no one uses silly amounts of tyres anymore and the savings that we've made elsewhere in the hobby more than cover the tyre costs anyway.

Are you sure mate? Ive seen people use 7 full sets of tyres a day at nationals this year! Thats over £200 in tyres and foams in a weekend

[flipside]

Ok I'm not even from the UK, but I did 3 nationals in the past years. I never had to use many tyres though... Last race was eden park where you have lots of different surfaces, never felt the need to put new tyres on every run (and made c final in both classes).

It's true that taking new tyres is an easy solution to shave a few seconds of your times, but imo there are lots of other things to do that will have a much bigger impact.

The scrutineering argument is so true. Also the problem with blown tyres, or damaged rims. In the end you will come up with something like allow 3 sets of tyres to be used, which probably is more or equal to the amount you're using already. What to do when it starts raining, etc...

It's not because some people use a new set every run, that you have to do it too. Some top guys just do that to make sure the car is 100% the same each run, not because it's supposed to be faster.

Tyres definatly are a big chunk in the racing budget, but I don't think you will save loads of money by introducing a tyre rule. If you see what stuff people spend their money on that is totally useless (but for example just looks cooler), I think there are better ways to save money. I also don't think there will be people ending up much higher if there would be a tyre rule. At least I don't believe I would have had better results just by taking a new set each run.

Maybe you can also make a rule for how many cars everyone can use in one year :-) Probably many top drivers take new stuff all the time, which is something the majority of us also can't. And that affects your race times too.

I don't think any rule can take away the 'feeling' that some people are faster just because they have a bigger racing budget...

[TryHard]

To add to MattW's previous posts, coming from the TC side...

You don't have to submit new boots to be scrutineered. Plenty of TC guys submit old sets for a weekend. As long as they have the correct mark for the meeting (on the outside of the wheel, for ease of looking at, along with the BRCA number), it's fine!
For example, I've got a set of wet tyres that have been used once, and now have marks on them from 7 nationals (will be 8 next weekend)... thats well over a year now!

Effectively, any previous event marks are ignored... if you want to save the allocation for new sets only, feel free (and in all honesty, in TC most do go new), if you want to use old (due to finance, track conditions etc), then thats groovey too

In terms of scrutineering, there's also no requirement to have all the sets marked up at the start of the day... just the one your going to use for your first run. If you want to run more, then mark them up as needed... as long as the car goes through scrutineering with a mark on the wheel, no problem.

I will be honest, and will say that the system used does require usually an extra person to help out in terms of marking sets, but where there's a will, there's a way.. right?

I'd certainly agree a pre-mount would most likely not be the right way to go, it's not like TC with a 12mm hex on every single car on the market, lol... but a simple limiting of the sets per meeting, surely can only help to sustain the popularity of the nationals? and mean more ££ for beer... and who doens't like that?

Ed

[Smartalec]

Originally Posted by matdodd

Are you sure mate? Ive seen people use 7 full sets of tyres a day at nationals this year! Thats over £200 in tyres and foams in a weekend

There will always be someone (not always at the top either) that uses a set a round but they are certainly few and far between, unlike years ago when a set per round was the norm