Limit to the number of tyres you can use at Nationals

[cmgreen]

I personally think racing has got cheaper over the last few years, with the introduction of brushless and lipos. Before it was 3-5 motors per season plus a new set of batteries every year plus tyres! So i dont mind a new set every meeting and if it needs 2 sets then so be it. But i dont do the nationals due to time.

It would be interesting if the rule set out only one set per meeting, therefore its the same for everyone........... my 2 pence

[Hulk]

In my opinion i believe some form of control over tyres would be a good thing. I recently raced at the Silverstone weekender event (which was excellent by the way) and the only tyre allowed all day were the new Fastrax tyres. This made for some really interesting racing as the weather was changing from one minute to the next. You didnt have to worry about which tyres to go out on if it started raining as you were only allowed to use the control tyre. This just left driver ability and set up knowledge to determine who the fast guys were. It was really nice to go to a meeting where you didnt have to buy two different compounds for the wet or dry, you just put the control ones on and leave them all day.

As for limiting the number of tyres this would be a really good idea from a cost point of view. People say the numbers are high for nationals but the vast majority of people racing at nationls are the same people who were doing then 10-20 years ago. There is a lack of youngsters racing these days at all levels of racing and a big factor in this has to be down to cost. If i had kids now theres no way i could afford for them to be having new tyres nearly every run for them to be competative.

As someone mentioned earlier the real problem is maybe not down to the amount of tyres you can run but down to the cost of tyres themselves. Schumacher have had a monopoly for far too long and for that reason have been able to charge whatever they want. I for one would love to see the profit Schumacher make from selling tyres, i bet its huge!!

We can all make suggestions and argue out points, but in reality nothing is going to change, toy car racing is a business and businesses are out to make profit. Limiting the number of tyres or anything we use in our hobby will not go down well with any business.

[cmgreen]

I think the only way to change somthing is to propose it at the Brca AGM.

Wouldnt it be easier to just have one set of tyres per meeting allowing the usage of any manufacturer any compound, once checked in scrutineering thats it. ?????

[Chequered Flag Racing]

If the nationals go for a control tyre would that include the foam insert also or would you want a free choice on them?

If inserts are free choice then drivers could end up with several sets of control tyres with different inserts so up goes the cost again unless you limit it to two sets of tyres per meeting.

[hashiriya]

Originally Posted by cmgreen

Wouldnt it be easier to just have one set of tyres per meeting allowing the usage of any manufacturer any compound, once checked in scrutineering thats it. ?????

And if they turned out to be the wrong choice... would your day be over before it even started?

[cmgreen]

Originally Posted by hashiriya

And if they turned out to be the wrong choice... would your day be over before it even started?

Your call?? Your Problem..............

just an idea...........

[MattW]

Originally Posted by Hulk

Schumacher have had a monopoly for far too long and for that reason have been able to charge whatever they want. I for one would love to see the profit Schumacher make from selling tyres, i bet its huge!!

I bet it isn't!!! I'm not 100% sure where they are made, but I believe it is in the UK (it certainly was a few years ago, and I haven't had any reason to ask since), and on that basis, there is no way that there will be as much money in it as people would like to believe.

This might surprise some, but personally I wouldn't be against a limit on the number of tyres - I think it's a decent idea. However you hide behind it, on some tracks, new rubber is worth a lot, and it always will be. Tyres are hugely important - they are the only thing in contact with the track.

The limit works in on road, they employ the following method at Nationals. The driver takes their tyres to be marked before you run them - all wheels have the driver's BRCA number written on them. They are marked, and you sign for them. Then when scrutineering, they just have to see the mark and the correct BRCA number, and it's JD.

I think i'm right in saying that when the 2 set limit was in place before, there wasn't nominated tyres. I think it would work today - but maybe need an extra person to do the marking.

I do find people's resentment of Schumacher tyres quite funny. It's no secret that I drive for them, and have done for a while. There 2.2 Minispike has been the tyre of choice for many years - got to be 15+. In all that time, no one has bettered it. GRP had a go and gave up, now CML have also bought something out. I don't blame them at all. However, the impression i've seen from all those that have tried it are saying that it might be as good. That doesn't say much really does it.

[/tobys]

A reduction in the cost of tyres would benefit racers at virtually every level - this has only got to be good for the longevity and future of our 'sport'.

[cmgreen]

[QUOTE=MattW;412123]I bet it isn't!!! I'm not 100% sure where they are made, but I believe it is in the UK (it certainly was a few years ago, and I haven't had any reason to ask since), and on that basis, there is no way that there will be as much money in it as people would like to believe.

QUOTE]

I would put my neck on the line and say £2.50 max per set of tyre to make after all costs have been taken into consideration.

[jaywestwood]

hi,
Why dont off road do exactly what tc have done in allowing x amount of tyres to be used but have them all pre glued???
same wheels
same inserts
same rubber
its then down to driver/racer to look after there allocated tyres for the event....
cost would be reduced
level playing field (ppl prob still complain)
scrutineer them before run and just get on and enjoy racing

[Robfo]

Well one reason would be that different cars use different wheel fitments and offsets so one prebuilt tyre wouldnt work. Although i do agree with a tyre limit, when i raced TC the tyre limit was a very positive step forward and i cant see why it shouldnt be put into place for offroad too.

[WHITTLER555]

What happens if you want to use 3 pairs of new tyres and 3 pairs of used tyres from the previous National?

[MattADH]

I remember at Kidderminster when BB Pins were the fast tyre in the dry, when it rained, there were some drivers who had used up all their allocation and could hardly get round in the wet. The Pins wore quickly and were not the tyre for the wet!

After many years of National racing, I look back at series' when we have had no tyre rule, two sets of tyres rule and now the two types of tyre rule. I have to say that its pretty good at the moment. Gone are the years of taking a bootful of tyres and not using them. At least we know what we need to take and some venues you only need one of the two choices as compound options choices are good for both the wet and dry.

I agree that limiting types of tyre has benefitted the class. Looking at 1:8 off-road at present, they are going through the same issues that we had in 1:10 off-road many years ago. There are so many hundreds of combinations of manufacturer, tread pattern, compound, insert and wheel!

I wonder if they will follow the lead of 1:10 off-road and touring car by limiting what can be used..

[MattW]

cmgreen - you might well be right (I genuinely have no idea!!). So then let's look at the chain. The company that makes them want to make a profit when they sell them to Schumacher, Schumacher want to make a profit when they sell them to shops, and shops want to make a profit when they sell them to end users.

The point that all the above happening, is the point that at which one of those members of the chain stops bothering - and at that point, there are no tyres.

I'm a racer like everyone else, and I pay for 99% of my kit, and just like everyone else, I'd like to make my racing as cheap as possible. I just think that sometimes you have to be realistic.

To put another slant on it, I'd be surprised if the margins in any of the tyres available (Schumacher, Fastrax, Ballistic Buggy etc) are much different.

Jay, Prebuilts are a new concept to off road really. It's only very recently that they have been available at all. I don't think there is much of a desire to go that way from Off Road drivers.

Hmmm....

its no suprise that the people that spend the most or are sponsored are higher up the finishing order than people with 'sencible budgets'?

It's an old saying but you really can buy your results!

Buggymaster

[bigred5765]

Originally Posted by BuggyMaster

Hmmm....

its no suprise that the people that spend the most or are sponsored are higher up the finishing order than people with 'sencible budgets'?

It's an old saying but you really can buy your results!

Buggymaster

not really i know of people running new tires almost every run that make the f'g'h final at nationals

[jondell]

I find that controlled tyres can actually increase cost for joe public rather than reduce.... might sound a bit odd, but if you said 2 sets per race and the tyres got marked before you raced, then you have to start out with a new set. A few have commented that at certain meeting they did not fit new tyres by choice. Racers must always chose how much they wish to spend, not be ruled into it.

So heres a thought..... limit sets per season, bit like engines in F1/motogp. Some tracks tries wear, some dont. Limits the maximum cost for all, but also means if you dont want to put on new tires, you dont have to.

For every event you get to sign in a max of 2 sets of tires (2wd or 4wd). They get marked and every time you run, you must have 20xx marked tires. Should you only sign in 1 set of tires at an race, the other set will roll onto the next race. If you make the A final, you are allowed 1 extra set of tyres, but this set is to be marked in a different way and can not be used again at a different race meeting.

[jondell]

Another point that i would like to make is that 10th is in a way better situation than all other high level classes. Whilst it is not cheap to race 10th off road, it is currently a very affordable class to race at the moment and i cant see this changing for a while.

8th on the other hand has a few problems in this area at the moment... far to many tire manufactures are around to be able to be able to effectively introduce a controlled tires format and a either case a much higher retail price per set (£50 to £60) makes fitting new tires expensive for joe public. Often we see A-B finalists using or trying 3 or more sets of tires per national.... thats a few quid

[Reevsey]

Having done 10th nats for many years where we are today is the best possible place, we have had a tyre rule that is consistent for every track and for the last couple of years, BB spike & Schumacher Mini spike, i can remember the days when we had Losi tyres at Kiddy, Proline/BB mini pin tyres at Tiverton and basically Schumacher mini spike and BB spike for all other tracks, all for one season!! not to mention if you went to a euros then you had a different tyre again. At the end of every season i ended up with tyres that i could not use over the winter and lots of money tied up in tyres that would wait for next years nats to use them up.

Now as some will know when i am at a national i am not shy when it comes to fitting new boots, but i don't see this as actualy costing me any more than a tyre rule would that limted tyres. If i where to do the same amount of 1/10th scale racing year on year with a tyre rule v No tyre rule all that would hapen is i would use less new ones at nationals but more new tyres at regionals and club meetings/winter series as i would not have as many part worn ones to use from nats. Over the course of the year i would use the same amount of tyres. So to conclude we could make nationals cheaper but would it really make your racing cheaper over the course of a year?

[ben]

Originally Posted by Reevsey

Having done 10th nats for many years where we are today is the best possible place, we have had a tyre rule that is consistent for every track and for the last couple of years, BB spike & Schumacher Mini spike, i can remember the days when we had Losi tyres at Kiddy, Proline/BB mini pin tyres at Tiverton and basically Schumacher mini spike and BB spike for all other tracks, all for one season!! not to mention if you went to a euros then you had a different tyre again. At the end of every season i ended up with tyres that i could not use over the winter and lots of money tied up in tyres that would wait for next years nats to use them up.

Now as some will know when i am at a national i am not shy when it comes to fitting new boots, but i don't see this as actualy costing me any more than a tyre rule would that limted tyres. If i where to do the same amount of 1/10th scale racing year on year with a tyre rule v No tyre rule all that would hapen is i would use less new ones at nationals but more new tyres at regionals and club meetings/winter series as i would not have as many part worn ones to use from nats. Over the course of the year i would use the same amount of tyres. So to conclude we could make nationals cheaper but would it really make your racing cheaper over the course of a year?

Cheers for that Reevsey, you can return to the rostrum now! Dont want you getting withdrawal symptoms!