new multi track venue at silverstone circuit

[taz5311]

Whilst I admit this looks like a really good venue, I wonder how much time and effort will be put aside for racers (as members of the BRCA) to use this rather than the corporate ventures.

I notice there seems to be no mention of the costs for racers to use the venue or how it would work with clubs or regional events being held there. £75 for the basic package sounds good but how much will it then cost to enter the venue and use the track?.

[simond001]

Is this good for the hobby though? Whilst we ar elooking at a great venue that is not the overriding factor for rc racing.

Most of the succesful tracks around the country are run by a club. The members of that club work with the committee to ensure that it delivers what it's members want. Finances are sometimes tight but the collective will pull together and work for free, provide whatever they can within their personal area of expertise and contribute to the maintaining and running of the track.

We are entering a new era of RC racing whereby commercial enterprises are vying for the same revenue as the clubs. There are a finite number of racers in each area and the balance between enough drivers to attaned meetings, the finances of each to do so, the competition series at each they wish to attend and the geographic location of the tracks needs to be handled carefully.

As a commercial enterprise it would be very simple to inadvertantly lure drivers to your facility as incentives cost very little in the light of the full build and roll out budget. Whilst this is good for the new facility if a driver is attending a meeting there they are not supporting the local club which may need both the revenue and the drivers to remain open.

Clubs also have a more relaxed approach to marketting than commercial enterprises.

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49414
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49413
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49438

compared to

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49904
or
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49562

I am not against Ardent or Moto arena, but certainly are of the feeling that local clubs who have a membership and return their monies to the good of the sport should take precedence and the lure of the glamour of "the biggest, the best, the newest" etc should be taken seriously.

They may be offering "the biggest" today, but, as an example, if Ardent took all the tc drivers from the area for the winter how would the other clubs servive. Would they then become the ONLY place to race having removed all competition.

Nothing against Ardent or the chaps that own it, but just an example of how these new companies could impact the rc scene.

Simond

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by mattybucks

The website clearly has "BRCA" at the bottom, which is a bit misleading if they have no involvement.

Not misleading at all. They could be brca affiliated. Most good venues/clubs that are use the brca logo on their sites

[Dave Treacy]

Simond, good, valid points....but if both can co-exist is that not the best of both worlds?

MKRCTC will ALWAYS remain a club, we have no desire to "go commerical", but if we can work with the commerical side of things there are benefits for all.

Anyone who has raced at MK knows that we run an enjoyable race meeting, we support all drivers from the novice to the top flight. We've been doing that for over 11 years now and this will continue....

[sosidge]

So frustrated with the negativity around this...

We are being offered a permanent, potentially world-class facility for our hobby in a high-profile, publicly accessible location.

Yet, because it's not a "club" and because "little johnny" might be allowed to use it at the same time as "racers", it's being shot down in flames.

Such a narrow minded view. There is no intrinsic superiority of "clubs" running things (in every other walk of life, we seek out the professionals to do stuff), and we were all "little johnny" once.

This hobby needs new blood. And we should be embracing every project that might encourage it.

[mattybucks]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

Not misleading at all. They could be brca affiliated. Most good venues/clubs that are use the brca logo on their sites

Is there anyone from the BRCA on this site who could clear this up?


Re racers and beginners using the same track, this is not an issue as long as it's not at the same time. If you've got £1000 worth a car going round the track you don't want to be met by a car going to wrong way down the straight.........

[PaulUpton]

Dont get how you guys are saying little johnny shouldnt be on the track at the same time.

Your at your local club on a sunday morning whizzing around the track, little johnny has just been to LHS and brought a ready to run car, who is going to say he cant use the track? Both the experienced guys and the little johnny have payed there monies to use the track.

Like i said earlier in the thread, this happens at most clubs around the UK

[Dave Treacy]

Matty,

Somehow I don't think anyone involved, club or commericial, is that stupid that they would allow cars to attack the track haphazardly...

[mattybucks]

Originally Posted by Dave Treacy

Matty,

Somehow I don't think anyone involved, club or commericial, is that stupid that they would allow cars to attack the track haphazardly...

We've all seen it at club meetings, a newbie turn up and drives his car the wrong way down the track. All i'm saying is a grading system. Accident do happen.

Don't get me wrong i'm all for new people coming into the hobby.

[simond001]

Originally Posted by sosidge

Yet, because it's not a "club" and because "little johnny" might be allowed to use it at the same time as "racers", it's being shot down in flames..

Not by me. The biggest draw to any club is it's members. I would never use "little Johnny" statements as the children are the lifeblood of a club. The bring their parents, firneds and are the future committeee members.

Originally Posted by sosidge

Such a narrow minded view. There is no intrinsic superiority of "clubs" running things (in every other walk of life, we seek out the professionals to do stuff), and we were all "little johnny" once..

Not quite true. I believe that in most sporting events local clubs provide the throughput of attendees. Take swimming, athletics, ballet etc..A local council may provide a venue, but the club will provide the attendees.

Originally Posted by sosidge

This hobby needs new blood. And we should be embracing every project that might encourage it.

Agreed. The venue isnt the blood though, it's the building. The blood is the drivers who attend, bring along others, join in the meetings and become regulars. (Almost like a club!)

As I said I am not anti this superb facility. My concern is that if we adopt the venues for big meetings not the clubs it will affect funding at a local level, where newcomers are more likely to attend.

[hashiriya]

Once again the internet has passed judgement on something it knows mostly nothing about. How about we all try and keep an open mind, support it where we can and hope thats its success can filter into all other aspects of the sport and benefit us all? Even the best projects will fail if the core audience don't even give it a chance assume that it won't be any good.

In my experience, if the track quality is good, it will attract good racers and therefore make the racing good. the small details will all work themselves out.

[Dave Treacy]

Originally Posted by simond001

My concern is that if we adopt the venues for big meetings not the clubs it will affect funding at a local level, where newcomers are more likely to attend.

I think everyone is aware that the big meeting only approach is wrong for several reasons:

The n00b (rather than little Johnny) will not compete as it's too daunting
The utilisation would be low...hpw many big meetings are held at any given venue a year? Even Snetterton only holds about 6 and that's a similar business model as this one.
Drivers want 3 things from their racing...the ability to compete in a regional / national series (STCC/BTCC/BRCA), the opportunity to compete against the best in Euros / Worlds and the ability to race regualrly with friends at a club level.

What drivers don't want is to spend a small fortune on their kit and find thay have no organised racing at a level suitable for their skills now and as they improve. There become backyard bashers and the kit ends up in the loft or on ebay.

[Agt26]

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[Dave Treacy]

AGT, did you not read the rest of the post and the quote I was responding to?

[Agt26]

Originally Posted by Dave Treacy

AGT, did you not read the rest of the post and the quote I was responding to?

Sorry misread your post although i'm pretty sure that they will be running regular club meetings especially as the Milton Keynes club are involved as well I think.

[Dave Treacy]

Originally Posted by Agt26

i'm pretty sure that they will be running regular club meetings especially as the Milton Keynes club are involved as well I think.

As Chairman of the Milton Keynes club I can confirm we're not "involved" yet, but we are in discussiuons....

Hopefully we will be involved... watch this space...

[mattybucks]

Originally Posted by Dave Treacy

As Chairman of the Milton Keynes club I can confirm we're not "involved" yet, but we are in discussiuons....

Hopefully we will be involved... watch this space...

A club would be very beneficial to the venue, in terms of getting people through the door on a regular basis, refreshments, and general income. Club members would also attend to pratice.

However should the venue not be viable for whatever reason then where would this leave the club? Trackless?

I suppose that should the venue want a club at the venue and be willing offer reduced track rental then it would be good for MK.

[Teddy truman]

I don’t know enough into this side of things at moto arena but I think the venue needs a club!! Dave, I’m sure you can back me up on this when I say a race meeting cannot be run by one person... from club events to big events you need helpers and numbers. Be it for track repairs, transponder and car check, race control, help when short of marshals... i just hope that people dont see it as im not helping as im not getting paid, where as the guy who is running it is... to fill all these spots of helpers at a normal club with employees will be very costly. As most clubs are non profitable everyone is 100% helping out and keeping it going because they love to do it, not because if they dont they cant put food on the table. So people need to remember if you want this place you may have to help out.

After going and seeing the venue i think it is awsome and very impressive. I will keep everything crossed for them, that they can bring in the numbers and achive enough to keep running. This is the first sort of thing of its scale so it was always a risk for these guys and fair play to them! like i said fingers crossed and good luck.

[PTRU]

I am upfor that good luck to moto arena hope it all works out for the guys.

It can only be good for RC racing.

[Bob Burr]

The problem is places like Ardent and Moto arena have totally diferent goals to model car clubs, they are first and formost businesses and have to make money, the moment they stop making money they no longer exist.
All businesses start the same way, someone will have a hobby or pastime that they enjoy, at some point they decide or realise that they can make a living out of it (be it hair dressing, dog grooming, model shop, etc etc) and thats the main point there no 1 priority will be to make a profit, great if at the same time they are also doing something they totally enjoy like playing with toy cars.

Clubs on the other hand start on a totally diferent track, usually a small group of people with a shared interest (Model cars, aircraft, boating, fishing etc) they decide to set up a club to find like minded people in the local area to join them, this infact usually costs the people setting up the club and they usually dont ever expect to see that money back.
On the legal side no club or association is allowed to make money (totally oposite of a business) any money a club has, has to be used purely for the purchase of club equipment or the improvment of club facilities, if a club made profit it would then be liable for income tax, may have to register for VAT, every member would also have to fill out a tax return form.

What is my point ? well people are asking why so many seem to be against Moto Arena or at best not that happy, i guess a lot of dedicated club people who see there hard work all done for free at risk, sorry Dave but as charman of M/K if you had just built your own track at cost to your members i bet 100% you wouldnt be so keen on moto arena not 15 mins down the road from you ..

As for the BRCA i can say that 100% they are not involved in any way (apart from maybe a little information) with Moto Arena, again for legal reasons they cant be, the BRCA is a non profit making organisation owned by its members (just the same as a club) it cannot endorse any product or facility, nor can Moto Arena be a member of the BRCA, this is only open to individuals and associated clubs who have to abide by certain rules, yes clubs have the BRCA logo this is to show they are BRCA affiliated.

Thats not a downer on Moto Arena im sure i will go down and race there at some point, just pointing out the diferences.