Set ups, tips, tricks, whatever you got...... Please!

[markwilliamson2001]

I have to say, go with either the Cat SX3, or the FS2. The Cat has only just come out, so is bound to have a few niggles, than the FS2, which has been around for a bit longer, and will have most of the niggles ironed out by now.

I kysosho is also one nice looking piece of kit.

[john333]

The SX3 is a fantastic car, and it's a British company (although some of the bits are made abroad) also Schumacher sponsor this site to go to the big race meetings! ;-))

[Skye]

DerbyDan, thanks for the offer of popping in with my car. I will try to do that, the next week or two I have things to do on fridays but if I can make the time I definately will do.

Im pretty sure that this is something I want to do, I was hooked since my days as an 8 year old trundling my Madcap round Burton Latimer community centre. I only gave up then as my parents didnt share my interest and my £5 a week pocket money just didnt cut it against the Losi XX and whatever else was hot property at the time. Then women and booze distracted my for a good few years but Im back on track now and want to pick up where I left off, and get winning a few nationals....

What I need right now more than anything is somewhere I can go in and around Kettering to get some serious hours of practice in without the competition of racing to tempt me into pushing it too hard too soon. I have only once so far been able to open up the throttle in anger and it almost took off (literally, the nose went skyward and pulled a huge wheelie!)

With regards to the other posts, thanks for your input guys! I think I agree with the general consensus, the short list of 3 has become 2. So its now a straight fight between the FS2 or SX3.

There is obviously the sensible aspect to consider of sticking with Kyosho to have the luxury of some parts being inter-changeable between cars, and then there is Schumacher who's factory is only 20 mins from my front door so would like to do my bit to support local business

Ok so thats not a good reason but I am drawn to the SX3.

How do belt drives compare to shaft drives on 4WD cars?

[DerbyDan]

Originally Posted by Skye

Im pretty sure that this is something I want to do, I was hooked since my days as an 8 year old trundling my Madcap round Burton Latimer community centre. I only gave up then as my parents didnt share my interest and my £5 a week pocket money just didnt cut it against the Losi XX and whatever else was hot property at the time. Then women and booze distracted my for a good few years but Im back on track now and want to pick up where I left off, and get winning a few nationals....

You were doing well getting £5 a week as an 8yr old back then!! I must admit that I never raced (& still don't) on a massive budget... back in the community centre days I always ran my Mardave Cobra on cheap stick pack SCRs & mild modified motor... but on such a small circuit it was enough to challenge for the top spot most weeks against Simon Cook with his 4wd Lazer ZX!

Recognise either the blue Cobra or Blue/Silver/Red Cougar1??



As you've found out - with the new brushless & LiPo technology you can buy all the power & speed you need... & more. The beauty is that for off road racing you don't necessarily have to buy the most up-to-date speedos/motors or batteries to be competitive. Wheels & tyres, meeting entry & travel costs will be your biggest expense.

[Skye]

I have to confess, I dont recognise any of your cars specifically but they certainly bring back the memories of my time at BLCC with cars ranging from the latest in high tech to Madcaps (mine) and I think I even remember a monster truck (were they called Midnight Pumpkin??) being wheeled out once or twice. They were the good old days....

[john333]

I've just got back into it myself, and as mentioned above once the initial outlay has been made it's just tyres and travel costs that will cost any real money. When I last raced about 10 years ago I had to have 3 or 4 motors, 5 sets of cells, motor comm truer etc etc and the cost was horrendous!

I don't remember the acetone trick being around when I last did it either so even wheels can be recycled now!

Personally I think it's a very valid point to support local business, it's a good thing that companies like Schumacher and Mardave are around, and I do think spares etc for them are quite a bit cheaper and more commonly available than some of the Japanese manufacturers (only my personal point of view though!)

[DerbyDan]

Originally Posted by john333

I don't remember the acetone trick being around when I last did it either so even wheels can be recycled now!

I don't think I used to glue on my tyres... or use inserts! - until the soft compounds came out they were ok just stretched over the rims LOL!

Skye; The Cougar was the car I raced when I first started at Burton Latimer - I also won my 1st ever trophy with it, for 2nd in the A up at the Rockingham club. The Cobra replaced the Cougar & won many a race up at the community centre aswell as a decent showing in the Northants Schumacher challenge series

[Skye]

Ok, so I took the car to a large empty car park last night to give it a proper blast and it is a handful! Admitting there was not a lot of thought regards setup (an area I need to learn!!) the only thing I did was raise the suspension a little to accomodate the bumps in the tarmac and odd nasty looking loose stone. I know doing this was not conducive to maximum traction but even so.....

After a few blasts up and down with neat tucked in turns I decided to shoot it down the straight flat out. It didnt just wheelie, it proceeded to go vertical, scratching all of the motor cover and underside of the wing before completing the manoeuvre by back flipping onto its roof!!

After this I was a lot more gentle when getting on the throttle so lesson learned I guess. However, on future runs when I hit top speed it wasnt starting that was the problem, it was stopping. Unless I started braking 25m before the end of the road I found it impossible to break without the the arse overtaking the nose...

Now this may partly been down to ride height as I say, and also the fact that I was doing the flat out runs on the downhill stretch of the car park which is obviously going to emphasise any weight shift forward but I was still surprised by this behaviour.

It always gives a conundrum regarding weight distribution, I could hold the arse down with some rear end weight. But then this would surely only compound the acceleration issues with a light front end!?

The other question this test drive last night raised, was can you actually ever go full throttle in a race? The time it took for me to hit top gear, travel maybe 40m at top speed and then stop it again without it spinning through 180 degreees (horizontal axis) must have been a total distance of maybe 80m. Do many tracks have 80m straights? And this is with the advance timing set at ZERO!!

One other thing, the toss driver of the day award goes to me as well.

I have always been a sticks man but changed to a wheel for the first time with this car, so as well as getting used to the car I have the handset to get used to as well. In the first few minutes of driving it, when going down the hill at maybe 80% throttle, I meant to hit the brake but instead hit the throttle full power. I knew what I wanted to do but my brain just didnt compute the to the trigger finger..... Cue the car slamming flat out nose first into a raised concrete kerb. I ran over to it fearing the worst, but to my surprise it was 100% intact. It had mounted the kerb and consequently scratched the underside of the front lip in a big way, but that was the only damage at all which I was surprised and relieved to see!

I didnt do that again either though so I guess its all part of the learning curve to handling the relentless power of this beast.

Once I have got it down to Moto Arena and given it a proper track workout I will have more idea of where it stands, but last night was enough to tell me that fun times lay ahead......

[Gonky]

Originally Posted by Skye

Once I have got it down to Moto Arena and given it a proper track workout I will have more idea of where it stands, but last night was enough to tell me that fun times lay ahead......

That's the best solution really, bring it down to the track to give yourself an idea of what we race on and there will be more than enough people willing to offer help and advice to make the car more drivable for you until you get used to it and can handle any extra speed etc.

But as you say, all part of the learning curve and it's certainly a lot of fun!

[Skye]

Thanks Gonky, I will hunt you out when I get down there...

I cant make it next Tuesday as I am going to Royal Ascot for the day to try and fund the purchase of my 4wd but John from MA said I can use the track on a Wednesday morning so I might see if its availble next Wed to put in a few laps on the previous nights circuit without any pressures of racing.

Then depending on how all that goes, I will try to get down for the following Tuesday night meet.

[DerbyDan]

Skye; thats pretty much how any brushless equipped 2wd buggy handles on a dusty tarmac/concrete surface, you will find that as soon as you run you car on a proper track with the correct tyres the car will become much more driveable

Moto Arena's indoor track is perhaps more challenging than most with such power - it requires a very measured approach, it took me a while to get the hang of it... though I don't now how on earth the top guys manage to get round so fast aswell as keeping it clean

[Skye]

How is it more demanding Dan, is it down to an intricate layout or something else? I am really looking forward to getting down there next wednesday morning if I can so that I can put down some laps with the pressure off. My intentions are simply to try and drive error free laps at minimal speed and slowly wind it up as I get the hang of it.

How do you accurately measure the front and rear ride heights? Is there a tool you buy for doing this? I have tried with a vernier caliper, but with only limited success. Also, do you measure the height of the wishbones at the lowest point or do you measure the underside of the chassis itself?

[DerbyDan]

Compared to touring car racing where small accurate changes can make all the difference.. in buggy racing, set-up is alot less critical it seems - especially if you are just starting out.

A good starting point is to set the car so it rides with the rear wishbones just below level & set the front so its about the same... if you want to measure the height for future reference, measure it from the u/side of the chassis (I use a steel rule if I can be bothered). Set yourself a smidge of negative camber all round (top of wheel leans into the car) & so long as you have the correct tyres & built the car to the book you should be ok

MA is a tricky track to master simply because of the different surfaces - carpet with differeing levels of grip, Plastic sheeting (protects features of the on-road track beneath) & the bare tarmac combined with the often large & tricky jumps & ramps means that any set-up is just really a compromise & achieving a clean lap is quite a challenge! But a good race is also very rewarding

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by Skye

How do belt drives compare to shaft drives on 4WD cars?

SOME shaft driven 4wd cars suffer excessinve amounts of torque reaction due to motor placement and thus direction of rotation relative to the rest of the transmission .... the FS2 isn't one of them (there is a reason the motor points the opposite way to most other cars!!)

Belt driven cars often feel a little "softer" in terms of throttle response which some people like.

Shaft driven cars tend to have very well sealed drive trains so so maintenance is both less frequently required and less extensive when it is needed (I rebuild my FS diffs twice a year if that, barely anything gets in!) where as belt drive cars have more open transmissions which can get full of crud.

Other than that it is down to the handling dynamics your after which car you choose.

The FS2 is super easy to drive, easy to set up (can just about be treated as a one-setup-fits-all car) and is never a handful even if the setup isn't 100% perfect. It's character is forgiving, rides the bumps like nothing else and has very strong traction. It is also a strong and reliable car that if it does break then it's normally not to the point the run is over, things tend to crack rather than shatter.

The SX3 obviously hasn't been out in the hands of joe public yet but watching some of the team drivers pilot them around they look more stable, predictable and generally more balanced than the SX/SX2. There is no way that anybody could say they don't look good.
I have heard that there is a potential transmission issue but the truth of that is I guess we won't know till it gets in joe public hands.


I know which one I would recomend, probably obvious it the FS2, but before buying any new car please please get hold of one to try, even if it's just a couple of laps.
Not all cars suit everybody, that said I have only come across one person who wasn't happy with the FS and I think we could ahve got him comfortable with the car if he'd worked with us.

I will say though that if you like the RB5 then you will almost certainly fall in love with the FS2 ... it's similar in feel but just MORE of everything

[Skye]

Thanks for taking the time to put all that together Roger, everything you say makes sense and is clear to understand for a relative novice. As a novice to 1/10 electric 4wd then the Kyosho sounds the way to go to be honest, easy set up, low(ish) maintenance, high performance.... Im sold. Kyosho Lazer FS2 coming my way, just a case of when now I guess. Im an impatient and sometimes irrational person when it comes to shopping and spending money so every fibre of my body is itching to get one asap, but the sensible part says to hang fire for a month or two until I can afford it without resorting to living on the breadline for a few weeks. The RB5 hasnt left me much change out of a grand and whilst some things such as the charger could be used for both, in most cases I would need to buy all the electrics again for the FS2 so would prob have another £700 or so outlay to get it up and running. £1600 in the space of little over a month would hurt the pocket somewhat....

[Skye]

Originally Posted by DerbyDan

A good starting point is to set the car so it rides with the rear wishbones just below level & set the front so its about the same... if you want to measure the height for future reference, measure it from the u/side of the chassis (I use a steel rule if I can be bothered). Set yourself a smidge of negative camber all round (top of wheel leans into the car) & so long as you have the correct tyres & built the car to the book you should be ok

Dan, what is the best way to make ride height adjustments? At present I just have the car set up as per the kit instructions with the only customisation being the springs wound down on the shocks to increase the spring compression tension a little. Would you suggest moving the shocks to other mounting positions?

[DerbyDan]

Originally Posted by Skye

Dan, what is the best way to make ride height adjustments? At present I just have the car set up as per the kit instructions with the only customisation being the springs wound down on the shocks to increase the spring compression tension a little. Would you suggest moving the shocks to other mounting positions?

Yes to alter the ride height you simply wind the threaded collers on the shocks up & down to suit. The spring length should be such that it will allow ride height adjustment without affecting the pre-load on the spring, I would leave the shock angles as Kyosho outline in the instruction manual for the time being.

[john333]

In answer to one of your questions, there are occasions when you would either never or very briefly reach full throttle on a track, at my club last night I was on full chat for maybe 1 second per lap!

Some drivers seem to use the speedo as an on/off switch, ie blipping to full throttle all the time, but they tend to be the drivers hitting every track marker on their way round! lol. (and have cooking hot motors)

Also, another rule of thumb is to have the driveshafts level when the car is sat on the bench.

[Skye]

Thanks Guys, I know it seems like I have a million questions at the moment going off on a thousand tangents all at once so really appreciate you taking the time to answer them. I have about a million more questions to ask but I will try to keep it to a sensible number each day...

[john333]

Originally Posted by Skye

Thanks Guys, I know it seems like I have a million questions at the moment going off on a thousand tangents all at once so really appreciate you taking the time to answer them. I have about a million more questions to ask but I will try to keep it to a sensible number each day...

No worries, keep 'em coming!