can lipo's burst

[DCM]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

So, what we need to do is to set a standard. We might suggest that we conduct a test, informed by experts, that shows that a certain design will contain LiPo debris, and then set that standard for LiPo 'sacks' or starter box cases or whatever. That would show we had tried to mitigate the risks, and give us something to demonstrate our responsibility. If our actions are shown to be insufficient in a future incident, we have to update our mitigation. Why is it so hard to get people to do something, or is it just easier to sit there and type out some excuse for staying on our arses typing into computers...?

I am not saying you are wrong, but in my experience, when you use something as a 'prevention', the reason has to be backed up by hard fact. So not arguing that it is better to jump than be pushed, but got to be careful that the jump don't land you up in a thorny bush of trouble. Hence why that once you define that a LiPo sack will mitigate 'most' accidents, you then have to prove how, why, and how you determine which sacks are safe. Then have to enforce it. I am all up for safety, but it is the implementing it that worries me.

I just worry that this could make some clubs very awkward to manage.

Personally I would rather see ALL chargers only charge at 1c, and only be able to charge LiPo, as most charging problems I have heard of have come from using the wrong charge profile.

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

pete all starter boxes are full of holes some more than others, some have open bottoms and are a box in terms not structure.

most IC circuit cars do NOT have a box for the RX pack, infact most sit under the fuel tank and are a snug fit with no room to wrap them in anything.

so you would have to put the whole car in somthing, which is hardly convienient.
so on both cases no its not the case......

Mark, stop bloody whining and do something. Are you telling me that if someone came up with a whiz bang item that made your car 10% faster, but it meant having a larger receiver pack, you wouldn't find the room to do it? B!@@£$%s!! You'd do it in a flash!!

Of course your starter box is full of holes!! I don't mind that you think I'm an idiot, but please stop opening your mouth and removing all doubt!! Why can't the area where the battery is housed be a closed steel compartment? As long as the LiPo is enclosed, you can have as many holes in the bloody box as you want!!

As for the receiver battery, are you telling me that you charge this with a device where you can make an error on the charge rate, or its control systems may fail (we still don't know for sure what caused the problem at the WC) endanger its integrity, and that the result of doing that is it will heat up an enclosed container full of combustible fumes and accelerant?!!!! If that's the case, you have more problems than enough!!!

Seriously, can you not start thinking about what you could do, instead of telling everyone what you can't do, before someone does it to you?

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

pete im sure the eb were or are looking at what constitutes a lipo bag, but not all sections use eb rules, though i would hope most will follow the guide lines they set out.

Unfortunately, Mark, that didn't happen. The EB were put off doing anything by some smart alec who said he'd bring a jiffy bag in with an official label saying LiPo Sack!!

Disappointingly, the EB dropped the subject...

[racingdwarf]

Wow . how far from the original post has this got since I posted.

[c0sie]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

ok fact form one sections vice chairman to anothers chairman

if it goes into "general rules" ALL BRCA affiliated clubs have to abide by these "general rules" as written in the handbook ie rule 8 All events are to have a first aid kit. now this allpied to ever brca affiliated club at any of thier meetings.
Oh and my information comes from Jim Spencer (incase you dont know him he is treasurer of the BRCA and is on the Exec commitee) and is 100% correct, if you doubt it call him and ask. i often call him to make sure im correct before i put brca fact out.

SO...... ill reply as your a chairman of a section , why dont you know that Chris? i would ask you to read general rules point 1 and the first sentance above the point1

I look forward to your responce!!

Mark

Mark, you are one of the most arrogant people I have ever met in this hobby...truely.

And rest assured that I WILL be making that phone call.

[jasonnjane]

Originally Posted by PaulRotheram

I'd be asking for an image of this 'burst' pack!

asked on tuesday...still nothing.

[c0sie]

As is always the case, If any of you reading this thread are after any official clarification as to the situation surrounding the charging of LiPo's at BRCA Sanctioned events, and the possible repercussions that may or may not have for the "average Joe" club racer at the local club I would strongly suggest you contact the BRCA Executive Committee or Electric Board in the first instance.

Better to hear an official response from the "horses mouth".

All contact details can be found on www.brca.org

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Mark, stop bloody whining and do something. Are you telling me that if someone came up with a whiz bang item that made your car 10% faster, but it meant having a larger receiver pack, you wouldn't find the room to do it? B!@@£$%s!! You'd do it in a flash!!

Of course your starter box is full of holes!! I don't mind that you think I'm an idiot, but please stop opening your mouth and removing all doubt!! Why can't the area where the battery is housed be a closed steel compartment? As long as the LiPo is enclosed, you can have as many holes in the bloody box as you want!!

As for the receiver battery, are you telling me that you charge this with a device where you can make an error on the charge rate, or its control systems may fail (we still don't know for sure what caused the problem at the WC) endanger its integrity, and that the result of doing that is it will heat up an enclosed container full of combustible fumes and accelerant?!!!! If that's the case, you have more problems than enough!!!

Seriously, can you not start thinking about what you could do, instead of telling everyone what you can't do, before someone does it to you?

actually no pete there is no room in 90% of ic car to do anything, i know u sit with ur 12th blinkers on so ill have grabed a couple of pictures to show how tight things are, prety much the same in starter boxes.
am am doing somthing about it trust me....
re rx charging i use a bantam bc6 or 501x, both are liable to having the wrong rate or type, but i double check and dont leave them unatended., but yup there next to the fuel tank, but hey you said we dont need to remove them from the car in an earlier post

ok what can i or do i do? well hold the driver briefing, explain the danjers and general checks on guys leaving things unattended
bugger me i do that all ready!!!

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Unfortunately, Mark, that didn't happen. The EB were put off doing anything by some smart alec who said he'd bring a jiffy bag in with an official label saying LiPo Sack!!

Disappointingly, the EB dropped the subject...

hmm thats why they should be looking into what is a sack

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by c0sie

Mark, you are one of the most arrogant people I have ever met in this hobby...truely.

And rest assured that I WILL be making that phone call.

jolly good, im not the one doubting your posts am i!! id like to know what you come back with and see if you still doubt me stating if its in general rules all clubs must apply it (which would mean if there was a rule voted in at this years agm to the general rules that "all lipo charging is to be done with the lipo in a sack" all clubs would need to apply that rule..


as for arrogant, what context was your reply in?

Originally Posted by c0sie

Mark,

I dont know which BRCA Exec meetings you have been attending, but I would be interested in hearing where you heard the "EVERY brca affiliated club would HAVE to enforce that every member using a lipo cell uses a sack".......

Seriously, where do you get your information from?

Originally Posted by c0sie

As is always the case, If any of you reading this thread are after any official clarification as to the situation surrounding the charging of LiPo's at BRCA Sanctioned events, and the possible repercussions that may or may not have for the "average Joe" club racer at the local club I would strongly suggest you contact the BRCA Executive Committee or Electric Board in the first instance.

Better to hear an official response from the "horses mouth".

All contact details can be found on www.brca.org

as chris says if you wish to get what i have said about all clubs need to apply the general rules officially clarified ask the exec comittee.

[c0sie]

Mark, over the years of me being in this game I have finally learnt one important rule about forums..

Anyone can post anything they see fit and claim that it is correct.

Im going to leave you to post to your hearts content whilst I reiterate to all that an official clarification from the BRCA Exec can be found by contacting the BRCA over at www.brca.org

I just hope that Jim doesnt mind me ringing him on a Saturday

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by c0sie

Mark, over the years of me being in this game I have finally learnt one important rule about forums..

Anyone can post anything they see fit and claim that it is correct.

Im going to leave you to post to your hearts content whilst I reiterate to all that an official clarification from the BRCA Exec can be found by contacting the BRCA over at www.brca.org

I just hope that Jim doesnt mind me ringing him on a Saturday

chris i dont think he will as i rang him prior to making my original post tonight, he was racing at his local club.
i did apologize for interupting his play time.

[racingdwarf]

the best thing about this hobby is the people you meet..just hope i never pit between these 2. If I do I will charge my lipo in a bag..in a metal box...under the bench surrounded by sand bags, just to be on the safe side

[peetbee]

Dunnno about you, but I think I'd rather be inside the box with the lipo than pit between these two!!

[c0sie]

Hey!! Im but a gentle giant

[Si Coe]

Truth be told, it doesn't matter if you do or don't have to follow the guidelines from the BRCA's standpoint - from a H&S point of view, once guidelines exist for demonstrated 'safe practice' you need a bloody good reason for not using them.
Case to point are the number of cyclist injured by car claims that get thrown out because the cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet. Its not the law, you don't have to, but its accepted as good practice and failure to do so is seen as not taking adequate precautions.
If somebody does get hurt by a bursting lipo - the first question will be was it in a sack? Not would a sack have prevented this in the first place, just that it wasn't in one.

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

actually no pete there is no room in 90% of ic car to do anything, i know u sit with ur 12th blinkers on so ill have grabed a couple of pictures to show how tight things are, prety much the same in starter boxes.
am am doing somthing about it trust me....
re rx charging i use a bantam bc6 or 501x, both are liable to having the wrong rate or type, but i double check and dont leave them unatended., but yup there next to the fuel tank, but hey you said we dont need to remove them from the car in an earlier post

I would wrap the cell in 2mm thick Kevlar. It's a very good material for containing debris, and not combustible. Here's a video of the blade-off tests on gas turbines (one of the blades on the front of the the engine is released with an explosive charge when the engine is flat out. All damage must be contained within the nacelle of the engine), and all that's stopping that blade from coming out of the fan case is... kevlar. I can't tell you the thickness, but it is much less than you would imagine. Seems to be 2mm available in your space.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/236079...lade_off_test/

I would also be pushing a manufacturer to offer the LiPo in a 2mm thick Kevlar case so you can reduce the space, or getting someone to make such a case that you can put a soft LiPo in. Hope taht gives you some more ideas!!

I use the BC6 as you know (wonderful charger, glad I took your advice!) and the most common error I dread is setting my two receiver packs to the wrong charge rate - one is 350mAh and the other 180mAh - so like you I am very vigilant after charging a main pack at 5A!!

[bodgit]

Im probably wrong here but my thinking is that charging a lipo in a sack gives the user a chance to remove the sack and lipo to a safe place if the lipo starts to smoke and set alight. The sack gives you the time to remove the lipo away from other members who,s safety should be YOUR priority. I have always charged my lipo,s in a sack from the day I got them. I cant see the house insurance covering me if they go up, burn my utility room and smoke the house if I did not take the available safety precautions.
I can also see the point of view from the ic racers. I dont know how many times in a meeting they have to recharge their reciever packs but the fact it is already in an enclosed space if they choose not to remove it from the car would give them the time to remove the car to a safe place away from other members.
Sacks are not designed so we can all stand round to watch the smoke bellow out. They are designed to contain the danger for time enough to remove it to out of harms way.
Other people,s safety should always come first.
Common sense has to prevail at the end of the day.

[peetbee]

A few people have mentioned storage at home and whilst travelling, so at the moment mine tend to be in the hauler (as I'm sure are most peoples).
Thats where they travel and live unless being charged or used.

Now bearing in mind 'good practice' where should they be stored?

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by peetbee

A few people have mentioned storage at home and whilst travelling, so at the moment mine tend to be in the hauler (as I'm sure are most peoples).
Thats where they travel and live unless being charged or used.

Now bearing in mind 'good practice' where should they be stored?

biggest source of lipo failure is over charge (wrong charge profile etc) short circuit and over discharge at high amperage.

your suposed to keep them stored not at full charge and most good chargers have a storage mode.
some kep em in sacks, some keep em in the packaging they come with or even thier cars.
there is far less chance of a problem while being stored.

[stoff]

Although storing Lipos next to your Nitro Fuel is not recommended...