Old X6

[SHY]

Originally Posted by DMS Racing

the quality of OUR parts is superior in many ways (on most parts now)

Seriously, this is both arrogant and false in my opinion! And if you are right, why not let people find that out by themselves? You're doing nothing but shooting yourself in the foot here...

Some of my "results":

X-5 chassis cracked in 3(!) places during a race (large jumps, no crashes). That was almost embarassing after having bragged about the car so much...

DDP hinge pins on the X-6 snapped right off (never happend on ANY other of my cars before)...

X-6 chassis broke on the first race (again no crash)...

Every time I tell this you guys reply "that's strange" and "never happened to us". That really does not help me at all...

Come on! We're not born yesterday! There is NO perfect car, neither is the X-5 or X-6!!! Don't get me started on the X-5 belt skipping or old pulleys...

You also know that a well designed chassis has to have some weak points! It's better that one piece breaks off in stead of you bending everything! On the B4 you eat front lower wishbones for breakfast. And I think that's perfectly OK! Why don't you make your perfect version that never breaks? With free replacement parts maybe?

Maybe I drive like an idiot and our climate is out of the ordinary... but your plastic is NOT fantastic! Neither is this attitude! IMHO the graphite chassises were way too brittle. Maybe it's better now... but I sure as hell wouldn't make these statements...

Now stop it please and come to your senses! I was finally about to have some company over here from some other X-cars... If you continue like this I'll still be all alone...

[Darren Boyle]

I think you are misunderstanding and "maybe" misreading what I have said.

This WHOLE thread is about the quality and design of our NEW X6 SQUARED nothing else. Everything I have talked about is to do with this model only, which I stand by EVERYTHING that I have said, not arrogant, just fact (which is why I have put - "on most parts now", meaning the latest parts we have just made for the X6 Squared) so not really shooting myself in the foot at all, just being misquoted....

X-Factory have come a LONG way since they first started out with the early X5, we improved this with the X5 Squared, improved again with the early X6, once more with the X60 and now even further, to the point we are proud of what we have on the X6 Squared. That is all we are saying.

I do not doubt you have the problems with your X5 you have mentioned nor the problem with your early X6 chassis, but the quality on those was at the time "ordinary" and "satisfactory" (nothing special), the new X6 Squared stuff is though is superb, everyone who has seen it already has said so, we are not just saying it oursleves (see Gnarly Old Doggs post on this very thread). We are not sat here telling you "our stuff has always been better" we ARE saying " the new X6 Squared stuff is superb"........

Dont joke about the B4 front wishbones, we might just be working on it already.........

So please read what I have written "carefully" since I am being mis-quoted and mis-understood, when you get to see the X6 Squared in the flesh you will fully understand what we have been talking about.......

[Body Paint]

Originally Posted by SHY

Seriously, this is both arrogant and false in my opinion! And if you are right, why not let people find that out by themselves? You're doing nothing but shooting yourself in the foot here...

Some of my "results":

X-5 chassis cracked in 3(!) places during a race (large jumps, no crashes). That was almost embarassing after having bragged about the car so much...

DDP hinge pins on the X-6 snapped right off (never happend on ANY other of my cars before)...

X-6 chassis broke on the first race (again no crash)...

Every time I tell this you guys reply "that's strange" and "never happened to us". That really does not help me at all...

Come on! We're not born yesterday! There is NO perfect car, neither is the X-5 or X-6!!! Don't get me started on the X-5 belt skipping or old pulleys...

You also know that a well designed chassis has to have some weak points! It's better that one piece breaks off in stead of you bending everything! On the B4 you eat front lower wishbones for breakfast. And I think that's perfectly OK! Why don't you make your perfect version that never breaks? With free replacement parts maybe?

Maybe I drive like an idiot and our climate is out of the ordinary... but your plastic is NOT fantastic! Neither is this attitude! IMHO the graphite chassises were way too brittle. Maybe it's better now... but I sure as hell wouldn't make these statements...

Now stop it please and come to your senses! I was finally about to have some company over here from some other X-cars... If you continue like this I'll still be all alone...

I hate to say this SHY, but this comes accross as arrogant and false in my opinion.

I spent several hours on the transmission when building my new X-5 squared a couple of weeks ago and all I had to touch when I put it on track was the slipper, it's had several runs and is still spot on. But that's not what we're debating here.

Maybe what DMS is saying was lost in translation, but what he is saying is that the new X6 squared parts, which you may not have seen yet, are of outstanding quality.

[YoungChazz]

I'm sorry if some of what I've said has caused concern. Some people seem to have problems with my second post on page one, so can we look at what I actually said?

The very first sentence: "The primary advantages to the X - 6 Squared are quality and better design."

A bit further down: "The suspension geometry of the X - 6 Squared is identical to the original X – 6."

Then, "We worked hard to keep the performance of the two cars identical."

The entire reason for both my posts was to reassure Spencer and everyone else that the original X - 6 is not obsolete. "Does that mean the original X - 6 is a bad car? No! Does that mean the original X - 6 is slow? No! Does that mean you can't win with an original X - 6? No!" Check the performance of the original X - 6 at the recent Petit race, where Team driver Bruno Heremans won the B with Team driver Cyril Baldini right behind him driving literally his first-ever 2WD race.

We believe that if you are not a National A main driver, you will have a great time with the original X - 6 for years to come. There is very little performance difference if any between the original car and the Squared.

If you currently own an X - 6, you are not required to run out and buy a Squared to remain competitive. Now you may want the better quality, you may want the easier building and maintenence, or you may just want to have the latest stuff, all of which are perfectly good reasons to buy the new Squared. But it's entirely your choice. And that's the whole point: X Factory gives you a choice.

"We worked hard to keep the performance of the two cars identical." X Factory are doing exactly the opposite of other companies, especially some on-road companies who seem to release a new car every year that obsoletes the old one. Our new model, as we have stated repeatedly, is mostly a quality upgrade, not performance. The same was true of the X - 5 Squared.

And unlike some other companies, we don't keep the new car a secret until the last minute so people pay full price for the original car and are surprised to find a new one released the next day. There have been 6 weeks' advance notice, and we have put remaining stock of the original car on sale at a massive discount to the price of the Squared. We will sell the original parts as long as we have them, and the new parts all fit the original car. How many other companies do this?

The one thing uppermost in our mind every day is to make racing as much fun as possible for The Family. That means the highest quality and the fastest cars at the lowest possible price.

We have made Upgrade Kits where it was reasonable to do so, and nobody else does that. Remember when Losi produced the xx-CR rear end and forced everyone to buy a whole new kit? The old cars were completely outdated.

When we did the two Upgrade Kits (X - 5 Squared and 4-Gear) we wondered if, by doing this favor for The Family, we were setting expectations that could never be matched later...

There were three sentences at the end of the second post that I would write differently now, and I appreciate this lesson form you guys. It's a mistake I'll try not to make again.

"In fact, with our chief competitors now built is China, X Factory is probably the best quality 1/10 off-road car you can buy.

X Factory parts rarely break. The AE parts break all the time."

Even though I will try not to write a sentence like those again, I stand by their content.

As Darren has said, I too don't know anybody who does not believe that the Losi & AE stuff made in China is of lesser quality than their former U.S. made stuff. Does anybody remember the first EA3 parts? In private conversations with Team drivers, many of them agree. This has nothing to do with dissing China -- you're right, they can and do make great stuff. But there is a definite quality difference in the Losi & AE parts, and most drivers know it.

And our new parts, for the X - 60 and X - 6 Squared, are indeed among the very best molded parts in the R/C industry today. It's not bragging if it's true. If you've seen an X - 60 you'll agree. If not, please wait until you see a Squared. You will agree then.

As Darren also pointed out, at the just-completed 24-hour race, we had five major parts breakages -- all AE parts. Is that because of where the AE parts are located? Maybe. But B4 drivers complain constantly about breakages of these same parts, so it's the parts, not the car.

Now if that comes off as knocking AE, I'm sorry. They make a great donor car, and the fastest drivers in the world have won a lot of races for them lately.

If you are among the fastest drivers in the world, I think you too might win with a B4. But if you are not, if you drive like I do, you'll do better with an X Factory car. And we are the reigning Champions in England, France, and Holland, just to name a few.

To sum up this too-long post, we did everything possible to ensure that present X Factory owners will be pleased with our new offerings while working to expand The Family. We began five years ago with a great idea and very little knowlege of the R/C-manufacturing business. Quality of the original X - 5, especially the first run of pulleys and the second run of chassies, was not good, but each time we've released a new car or part it has been better than the previous in design and quality, until we're now right there with the very top players. To paraphrase an old cigarette ad, "We've come a long way, baby."

And most of all, we thank The Family for all their help and support.

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I know I said I would not post anymore but my beef is only with the cost of upgrading the car so often I race on a budget and a small budget at that. My original post was a bit missleading I have only run the car for one year when I prchased the 4gear version that was an example of how much it would cost. The parts being dicontinued also bothers me as we know that the parts that are still in stock will not last as long as you think as people will start to bulk buy as they do when there is short supply.
For me personaly I dont think that I have gone any faster with it I have finished lower in the nationals and regionals than I did the year before. But it is a very good car and Xfactory do a fantastic job for the hobby/sport.
As for any of the coments by others on this post can I say that I dont agree with them and I support Chaz and Darren in what they have said and I didnt want to cause any bother or upset.

[SHY]

@Darren: OK, I didn't at first get that you were only talking about the X-6^2. My bad. But I still advise you to just keep on doing a great job. But let us customers do all the bragging!

@Chazz: Great, you guys are very intelligent. I knew you'd get the message!

Everything regarding X-Factory is very exciting and very "involving" for everyone. You're already exceeding people's expectations in so many ways. You don't need to promise to us the moon... Some of us will manage to break any part you throw at us, and that's perfectly ok! And it doesn't take more that a couple of false rumors claiming that X-Factory have now secretly moved production to China and parts break more often than before... and it'll spread like a virus... (Serpent were occused of this long before they did)

As to the discontinuing of parts I personally think it's fine the way you do it. Especially as long as the new parts fit the old ones. If that weren't the case I'm sure you'd keep stock of the old parts for some years to come.

Now get back to your work instead of writing long posts to us tossers!

[Darren Boyle]

Spencer/SHY, thank you both for your replies, I hope ou both understand a little bit more about what we are doing and how we are trying to do it, rest assured we will always try to dleiver the best possible product we can at the most compatative price.

SHY, dont put yourself down just for having an opinion, we value that, never have we thought you were a "tosser" in any way, if we did neither of us (myself or Chazz would waste our time on the weekend replying to you.....

Best Wishes

Darren

[SHY]

Just kidding, don't worry about it!

We're getting 20 below over here in the next days... wanna stress test the new parts?

[Lee Martin]

This sections like a battle for longest post! haha

[GRIFF55]

your not going to win with that one pidge

[matt]

Originally Posted by DMS Racing

For that extra £30 differnace you get - wing, 2 wing mounts, all required hardware, new AE idler gear, 2 idler bearings, idler shaft, set of anti squat shims, 2 rear hinge pins, rear 3 and 4 degree rear pivot blocks, gearbox casings, motor plate, rear bulkhead, 6 threaded inserts, motor T piece, gearbox height spacers etc which adds up to around £95 seperatly, so it really is not a bad deal......

But for that extra £30 you get nothing of any use IMHO, and bit you will have a hard time passing on 2nd hand wih people upgrading to the new one.

[Darren Boyle]

Matt, but for those who need those bits (new converts) this is what is needed in the kit, there is NO point doing an update kit at £110 as well as the full kit at £140, they are far too close together as has been said on numerous times by Chazz ands Paul already

[jono83]

the same questions just keep getting answered over and over again lol i am the only one who thinks this thread is going round in circles?

[matt]

Yes i know this is what new coverts need, but that is not what i was talking about. Maybe it's me being petty after seing Xfactory doing upgrade kits in the past

[Darren Boyle]

Originally Posted by jono83

the same questions just keep getting answered over and over again lol i am the only one who thinks this thread is going round in circles?

I do, I have answered the same questions several times......

[SHY]

Originally Posted by pidge

This sections like a battle for longest post! haha

And you're dead last for a change!

Btw I think it's extremely cool that also the really good racers contribute and have fun on this forum - that's really unique!

[Lee]

I love you too pidge



As Darren and Chazz have said, nearly all the parts in the Squared kit have been re-worked/improved upon in some way. There really is no point in selling a conversion kit that gives you 90% of what the full kit would include. Everyone would just pay out the extra few pound or dollars and have a new car

Did you ever go into a shop as a child and ask for a 9p bag instead of a 10p bag

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I think the X factory god was telling me something yesterday (dont dis the math). Sods law is not the word for it after all this gibber jabber on this thread my X6 had a masive crash at the Southport GP full chat on the straight (any car would have broke the speed my car was going). So the damage tally broken chassi, rear wishbone ,bent hinge pin, 4 deg hinge pin brace and a servo horn and calls from the croud "are you getting a squared now Spen" Darren have you got a vudu doll.

[super__dan]

Bad luck Spence! Were you able to fix it on the day?

[Spencer Mulcahy]

It was in the final Dan so no need, it hase been stripped ready to be converted back to a B4 as I havent got the money at the mo for a hair cut never mind all the parts to fix it. I need a new generator before the nationals so all my money is going on that plus entry for the nats. I know it is a better car than the B4 but at least I will have a car to race with.