EFRA AGM - any feedback?

[jim76]

ok, slightly confused.

Shy put a proposal forward to EFRA based purely on voltage and capacity?

BRCA put a proposal forward stating voltage and dimensions?

and EFRA accepted both, joining them together?

yet Norway are going to run to ROAR rules for their own club/national series? So if they run at the Euros they would have to get different cells compatible with EFRA?

Is there anything to stop the BRCA going this route too, to scrap the dimension rule? or does this have to wait until next year now?

[SHY]

YES! The americans managed to vote for Bush two times... but they're not entirely stupid!

Just allow the hardcased saddles already on the ROAR list. If some manufacturer manages to do the trick as to making saddles smaller and still hardcased - just add that as well! It would sell like hot bread!

If Trakpower could make em' exactly the size of NiMH - of course they would!!!

What could have been done at the EFRA AGM was not to vote for the BRCA proposal. Or for BRCA to withdraw it.

Those with chassises made for stickpack of course don't give a damn...

@Jim76: That's spot on! Except capacity is also from BRCA

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by matdodd

I was at the AGM Mat and we couldnt do anything about the dimensions for saddle packs!

I'm trying to understand all this, can anyone help with:

How did the BRCA proposal end up including the dimensions unless we asked for them?

Having proposed those dimensions could they not have been amended at the AGM?

[SHY]

As I understand you asked your EB to more or less "take care of it"... simply stating "we want LiPo"...

Of course they do a great job and have the best of intentions. Just be more specific NEXT year! I'm confident they'll appreciate more detailed input. Those guys have a lot to coordinate!

I for one would be more than happy to help formulate a proposal (for any country) if asked. There's so many great ideas around, but most of them are never sent.

And Mark: I'm not gonna pull your leg anymore! Even though it was served with some "strong mustard" most of your points in the initial discussion were very sensible. So those were incorporated in the proposal from Norway You guys represent the #1 scene for 1:10 OR in Europe - you've got first hand knowledge!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by MattW

Guys, i'm not sure what anyone was expecting to happen (this is just my reading of the situation btw - i could be off base!!). "The BRCA reps" were unlikely to propose (to EFRA) to allow your longer saddles - because it was their proposal to put them outside of the guidelines in the first place. If you felt strongly about having a different dimension for saddles, then the BRCA AGM was the only place this was likely to happen - i.e ask your BRCA section rep to represent the section to the EB to modify their spec/proposal.

matt as i understand it they were not allowed to discuss size at the agm

the brca proposal stated 5000mah, odd how that got changed!! especially as this is claimed to be race legal before the AGM.......... http://www.lrp.cc/en/products/vtec-b...v-28c/details/

the BRCA claimed to want dimensions to create a level playing field, well they have done that all that has happend now is that the most popular lipo saddle wont be legal, even though they fit in cars, and now lipo users have one modern stick pack car to buy should they wish to run lipo........level playing field my ass!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by SHY

YES! The americans managed to vote for Bush two times... but they're not entirely stupid!

Just allow the hardcased saddles already on the ROAR list. If some manufacturer manages to do the trick as to making saddles smaller and still hardcased - just add that as well! It would sell like hot bread!

If Trakpower could make em' exactly the size of NiMH - of course they would!!!

What could have been done at the EFRA AGM was not to vote for the BRCA proposal. Or for BRCA to withdraw it.

Those with chassises made for stickpack of course don't give a damn...

@Jim76: That's spot on! Except capacity is also from BRCA

but capacity got adjusted to suit other manufactures http://www.lrp.cc/en/products/vtec-b...v-28c/details/

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

but capacity got adjusted to suit other manufactures http://www.lrp.cc/en/products/vtec-b...v-28c/details/

Do they fit the dimensions though!??

Again, if someone can answer, if the dimensions can;t be discussed at the AGM, who chose the dimensions exactly!?

[jim76]

so is that saddle compatible with the new rules?

i personally don't care which company it is (but i assume Nosram will bring out an identical pack lol), as long as i can use a lipo next year!

It does seem very harsh on trakpower though as they were the front runners pushing lipo.

[SHY]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

but capacity got adjusted to suit other manufactures http://www.lrp.cc/en/products/vtec-b...v-28c/details/

It was in the agenda before the EFRA AGM.

That LRP saddle is not hardcased as far as I can see.

Mark - you know the guys at Trakpower don't you? Can you please give them a call and ask if it's at all possible at this point in time to make hardcased saddles that comply with the max. dimensions? And how low mAh rating it would take to do so...

I can hear "2000 mAh"...

[jim76]

just checked the pack dimensions, it's 25mm deep, so outside the rules also! but it is the correct length.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by SHY

It was in the agenda before the EFRA AGM.

That LRP saddle is not hardcased as far as I can see.

so the capacity got adjusted (lifted) to level the playing field compared to nimh!!!

[dan_kitty]

Originally Posted by Tral

In short version:


The case must have original suppliers label intact, stating the rated voltage and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 5,500mah. The Brand name/logo shall be easily readable.
.

My trakpower stick pack doesnt state its capacity anywhere (original 4900 pack)

im guessing this is going to cause a problem?

[GRIFF55]

You got a permanent marker Dan!!
Agreed, it is such a shame for trakpower if their saddles aren't within the legal dimensions as they were one of the first to jump on the hard cased saddles. Lots of investment already

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

Again, if someone can answer, if the dimensions can;t be discussed at the AGM, who chose the dimensions exactly!?

The dimensions are exactly the same as used by ROAR, it's pretty useful to use the same dimensions as everyone else. The Trakpower batteries aren't ROAR legal either according to their dimension rules, but ROAR allow them as the choice of saddle packs are limited to the Trakpowers and a pack from SMC so right now ROAR ignore the dimensions of them. I'm sure if others started making saddle packs under 139mm overall length then the rules will be tightened.

From this thread

Originally Posted by mark christopher

roar lipo list is here http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/...6f1bb3017f4a5c

they have allowed saddle till dimensions can be established
"*This pack is configured saddle pack style and has been granted conditional approval until saddle pack dimensions are established "

[DaveG28]

It'd be good to know if any ok saddle packs are on their way?

If not, I'm not changing car so would probably get some Nimh again to get a setup sorted!

[fifi]

Someone knows a saddle pack that fit these dimension?

I have look for and haven t found any.

For ROAR
Physical Specs:

8.3.2.2.1 Hard Case & Dimensions
A factory encased hard shell pack is mandated for race durability reasons that stem from the
vulnerability of Lipo cells to physical damage. Any physical distortion, denting or puncture to
the cells will cause either an immediate or long term safety risk. A hard cased pack reduces
this risk significantly by protecting the cells from crash damage, battery ejection, and general
wear and tear at the track.

The maximum dimensions are:
Length: 139mm +0mm/-3mm
Width: 47mm +0mm/-2mm
Height: 25.1mm +0mm/-3.0mm

These are in place to standardize pack dimensions in order for chassis manufacturers to now
be able to design around a consistent set of fixed dimensions.

[SHY]

RC is not really a big industry. And makers of LiPo packs have to use industry standard LiPo single cells. If you look at RC airplanes you can get very small to very big packs. But once you get up to a usable mAh rate for cars the packs need to be a certain dimension.

Surely Trakpower made the smaller 3200 saddle packs in order to make fitting easier, as the 4800 ones are a bit big. If you need anything smaller than that the mAh rating will again need to be smaller... and you'll then have runtime problems - and also loose the fantastic feature of long practise runtimes with LiPo. Not to forget the weight is low per se so you'd rather carry a larger battery. Lead weight does not give extra runtime

And as long as it's not a competitive advantage why should EFRA bother for 1:10 OR?

[DaveG28]

The LRP says race legal, bit if it doesn't meet ROAR specs where is it legal?

I'm beginning to think it's back to nimh for me, if Lipo have been legal for a year in the US but there's still no saddle Lipo's about and no stick Lipo cars other than the Cat, can't see that changing much in the next 5 months, hope I'm wrong!!

[JCJC]

The size thing seems to have "defaulted" to something not quite what we wanted, just like life in many ways. Seems to me there has to be some movement from the BRCA or battery assemblers to allow saddles or make saddles that fit.
We cannot have an option that excludes most modern 4 wheel drive cars.

SMC is close with 4900 @ 67x45x25 1.5mm to tall, I would love to use this pack if...... Ref: http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ddle-pack.html

MaxAmps have 4000 @ 69x45x21, 3300 @ 66x34x19, 2200 @ 66x34x13

so perhaps saddles can be produced.

I want to race next year with one type of cell with my charger set to lipo, but I may have to carry two types of batteries and two chargers and adjust weight as we go. I cannot believe that after all the discussion over the last year we have reached this position - by default.

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

The LRP says race legal, bit if it doesn't meet ROAR specs where is it legal?

I'm beginning to think it's back to nimh for me, if Lipo have been legal for a year in the US but there's still no saddle Lipo's about and no stick Lipo cars other than the Cat, can't see that changing much in the next 5 months, hope I'm wrong!!

Don't forget the Lazer ZX5-SP ...... with a 3200 LiPo slotted in it's side to side balance is near spot on!!!