Control/No control

[RogerM]

Carl ..... I have to say that would be a real turn off for people like me entering nationals. I have my tires glued up for Oz ..... all sets are from previous meetings (2 x glued and not used and 1 set that have done 1 run and are still as new due to the track surface being so kind). If I need to go outside these I'll have to go home as I have no money available for tires at this meeting.

Also what about drivers who are "shop supported"? Not only would forcing the drivers to buy from a single source hurt their wallet (lets face it prices would go up) but also the shop which supports them as it's a two way street. For most racers they spend far more a year on tires than they do on all other items cumulatively so if you took those £££s out of the shops everybody would suffer in the long run.

If it had been as you suggets at the start of the year then I'd not have entered any national other than my home track ..... I think that would be the case for quite a few others. If that happened then the national series would be the F1s racing and a group of randoms "making up the numbers" each meeting ..... .if anything would kill 1/10th OR that would do it!!!

I can see the merit in just about every other post in this section other than any of yours ..... with all due respect and not wishing to upset you people reading your posts could be forgiven in thinking your a millionaire and if you have to put a new set of tires on each run you'd be prepared to do just that!!!!

One of the reasons I like 1/10th OR so much is that there is more power than we can use and thus having super fresh cells and motors is less of an issue keeping costs down to a level where people aren't "priced out".

Just my honest opinion.



I like the idea of limited number of sets as it takes the wallet out of racing a little more. With the price of fuel and the cost of tires racing is bordering on being a non-viable hobby for many these days.

[Chrislong]

I do agree with you Roger, whatever the rule is: it has got to mean people can turn up and run part worns, people can prepare in advance and people don't have to carry shed loads of tyres as the choice is too broad.... otherwise it'll kill the popularity.

This is why im beginning to conclude that the current rule suits.

[bigred5765]

ya good point just thrashing out every idea,

[Chrislong]

Originally Posted by bigred5765

ya good point just thrashing out every idea,

No harm in that - parts of them are good mate

[bert digler]

Originally Posted by Chrislong

No harm in that - parts of them are good mate

this is a great idea schuey blues they would last easy a meeting what about one set to last the whole day except a finalist who get a new set for legs 2 and three

[antnee]

How it works in TC is that before each season all the importers/manufacturers offer their tyre, and what they can offer. It is then offered up to vote for all the people who did at least 1 national the previous year. As mentioned already, last year it was take-off rp30's this year it is sorex 32r's (might be 28's). These both have 'BRCA' in the side wall and also have brca in their part number so you can tell if they're the correct tyres. Also have 1 control tyre means the manufacturer can offer them at a lower price because they have guaranteed sales

If you say for the 3 companies to use there hardest compounds, then they will probally gradually soften up the compound so more racers use them, so it wouldn't work

1 tyes for all with marking in sidewall-simple!

[albertobdq]

Well, here's my idea:

2 set of tyres could be included with the registration fee, those tyres will be previosuly marked by marshall using something like this:



It'd be pretty difficult to cheat, since you purchease the tyres with the registration and they are just labelled from the inside with your license number just before you get them. No other tyres allowed in the racing box.

This way you don't even have to bring your tyres, less stuff to carry to the track.

It's the easiest way to monitor everything. If someone complains about some tyres you just have to check your "tyre-log" with the ID inside the tyre. To improve controll even further you could only purchase one set of tyres at time, when they'd be wasted you have to return them to the marshall who will take note in the "tyre-log" so it couln't be used anymore. This way every driver will only have one set of valid tyres at time, making verifications easier.

You'd do this more sofisticated using speciall ink or logo, difficult to duplicate. To improve control even further you could only purchase one set of tyres at time, when they'd be wasted you have to return them to the marshall who will take note in the "tyre-log" so it couln't be used anymore, and then you'll get your new marked set of tyres. This way every driver will only have one set of valid tyres at time, making verifications easier.

I hope this will be helpfull.

[MattW]

The Sorex tyre for this year's TC nationals isn't marked in the sidewalls.

Having a situation where everyone buys their tyres from the organisers at the race was suggested for TC, and i think rightly it was dismissed as far too much work for the organisers.

I still say personally i think current ruls is ok - although i would support a max number.

[super__dan]

Leave it as it is, there is far more risk in making the current system (which for me works 99% of the time) worse than better!

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by bert digler

this is a great idea schuey blues they would last easy a meeting what about one set to last the whole day except a finalist who get a new set for legs 2 and three

I like the idea of this ...... 1 set per meeting for the nominated "dry" and "wet" tires, I think it would help with costs overall as there would be no point in using huge power that would just rip the tires apart in the first run! I think you would need to say 1 set of each during competition, +1 for the A guys, (so people could use part worns in practice) in order to give the tires a chance to last at all.

That would be a good thing for most tracks except the rare ones like Ledbury where you can race all day on a set and they still look like new .... no idea how many meetings you'd get out of a set there .... maybe 4 or 5.


One of the things I find most striking talking to our friends across the pond (mainly for Kyosho related information) is that they get quite a few meetings out of a set of tires on their club tracks ...... I had our tire wear situation described as "crazy" by one guy who has been over here to race.

Tires, more particularly wear, were my main concern in coming back to 1/10th from rallycross. I have tires that have run an entire national season in plus club events that I would still be happy to mount up at any event again! I think over 3 years I only used about 5 sets of one type, 3 sets of another and 4 sets of a 3rd tire type. I think I have a couple of sets of "oddball" tires that were supplied as controls at specific events.
If we think about it as average number of events a set it would be about 4 - 5 meetings / set ..... many still with life in them as I say.


I have spoken to quite a few people recntly who sight tire costs equal with travelling costs as reasons not to make the step up from club to regionals .... there must be a similar number who have similar feelings about the step from regionals to nationals.



I do agree with Chris and Dan though that considering where the rest of our rules direct us too the current tire rule is going to be difficult to improve upon without compromising the cost / competativeness ratio too much.

Just goes to show how well developed the 1/10th OR rules are and how well guided the section has been over the last couple of decades.

[markwilliamson2001]

I agree Rog,

I did just regionals last 2 years, but since now racing at club level, I have had to just cut my racing down, especially because of rising fuel costs etc etc. I might not even do any regionals this year, but just concentrate on club racing as tyres last well (about 4 meetings is okay befor performance totally disappears!).

However I will miss racing outside, as it was much more fun!

[Lee]

I will pretty much echo what has been said before in regards to how good our current rules are.

If you take the people who have posted in this thread and add up all there experience there is probably 150 years + in experience in various classes and nobody has really come up with a proposal that will help our section without any downsides.

I think the only thing that has been suggested that i would like to see is a limit of 2 sets per day regardless of what the weather does, if it rains and you have used two sets of yellows then tuff.

The only reason i say this is because average drivers like myself and im sure a lot of people around my skill level would probably only use 2 sets any way, so having an option of a 3rd "wet" set would then be increasing costs.

Obviously an extra set would be allowed for the A finalists.

[niggs98]

personally i think it should be opened up to 3 types of tyre to make it more open to the manufacturers of other brands cough grp cough but in the same rules as we have now, yes it means we carry a few extra sets of tyres but at the same point dont we all as racers chat on here and ask what is the best tyre for each track, iv rarely seen a club or driver lie about what they are going to use so it wont mean that we have to buy 20 milion extra sets like people are worried about, i like the idea of limiting sets but honestly feel it is (a) difficult to police, sort out and more importantly (b) i saw a lot of people shredding tyres last year on various tracks so what happens at that point, i for one would complain bitterly if i had 2 right rears go so had to reverse a already run left as it would throw the handling right out on my car. so what im hoping they will let happen is to just go to 3 types as then people can vote with their walets to run the better made tyres which will force the other manufactures to sort out the fiasco's we have had before

[Kopite]

the first thing i think to myself when i look at a track is 'great, concrete section, that'll destroy the tyres'. the other track surfaces seem to provide a fairly decent wear rate, where two sets would last a meeting easily, regardless of what level you feel you race at.

Say NO to concrete!!!

[markwilliamson2001]

I agree Kopite...

Sometimes kiddy puts me off in that respect, especially if they have a lot of the bricked sections. I also think the reason why Ledbury didn't rip tyres to shreds was because it was damp, and also they had no tarmac/concrete. Excellent!

[Cockerill]

Originally Posted by Kopite

Say NO to concrete!!!

I agree

[antnee]

If it was limited to 2 sets a day, how would the 2 sets be marked?

If you mark the wheel and the wheel gets broken what happens?
Can't mark the inside as any dispute would mean cutting tyres open

So some sort of visible ink, that will show up on black, that wont come off in the wet and can't be easily reproduced would be needed

[Chrislong]

This weekend has been a good example of a tyre rule working.

Weather stayed nice, there was no 'local knowledge' on tyres and pretty much one obvious choice - with a few people choosing to try compounds.

*Tyre wear has also been amazingly good - all my tyres are great and will be used at Southport national & Stotfold, along with any saved from Talywine.

After a few chats, and this discussion - personally I conclude that nothing should change.

Id like to see GRP's on the list, but for that - we must use them at none national events to proove they can be suitable for nomination in 2009. But I also like the fact that because the nomination is the same all year; all my tyres can be used again if wear is low, or if I don't use all the packs bought (see *)

Chris

[tony12795]

At the end of the day it’s all about cost and grip for us racers and that’s it.

These are my thoughts:-

· Two makes of manufactures tires.
· Fixed pricing negotiated by the BRCA or a maximum price on the assumption that they are going to be cheaper for us racers.
· Two sets of tires for the meeting but not including practice.

No to concrete and tarmac.

[Cockerill]

After some discussion I think most of us have come to realise that the current rule is probably best. Maybe after this season at club/regional level the GRP tires will become an option next year for some nationals.

I would like cheap, quality, consistent tires, realistically we will only ever get two, but that's business. With a bit more competition the tires will only get better/cheaper.

I did notice that the Yellows I bought this weekend were miles better than the ones I got at Kiddy