TLR 22 Build and Set-ups

[liam]

Sorry it was kind of a shameless plug as I have one on ebay!

but i think it would be a good idea, esp in the wet and on low traction surfaces

i dont have a 22 yet to try it on but it did make my xx very smooth and easy to drive

pretty sure the 22 has same gears as xxx so it will fit on although not sure how much room the gear cover has

[ianjoyner]

Hey Gnarly I noticed your setups had appeared on Petit for the FORCC regional and you had both rear and mid configurations (although they're named back to front on the Petit page!). How did they compare? What did you settle on?

The main surface where I've felt my 22 isn't great is grass, I've been tempted to give rear motor a try. It gets round okay, but when you start to push, it understeers into corners yet the rear end will easily snap out mid corner. Traction is good in a straight line, but if you get out of shape with any steering on and come off the throttle it feels like it takes an age before it calms down and you can get back on it again.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Tis True - we had a 2 day regional at Faversham last weekend and I took the opportunity to run both configurations - the mid car during the 2WD class on the Saturday and the Rear car during the 4WD class - just so I could learn a little bit more about them both.

Firstly - the weather was massively changable during the weekend and we'd be on yellows for one run and BB greens the next. But I found both configurations pretty decent nad even when the grass wore down, the balance of the car was still evident and I could gain more forward traction than most of the other 2WD runners and even in round 4 of 4WD qualifying (after 2 hard days of racing), I got a sub top 10 time in round against the 4WDs so I was pretty stoked.

A couple of things I noticed about the 2 back to back

1) The rear car needed less pack in the front shocks than the mid car
2) I reversed my roll centre washers on the front as the mid car would naturally stay in the corner longer but the rear car needed a bit more encouragement to keep in in the corner on power.
3) I reversed my logic in terms of wheelbase settings - to gain more 'traction' with the mid car- I went SWB but with the rear car, all this does is add to the pendulum so I went back to Medium Wheelbase (i.e. longer) to prevent the car over rotating.
4) You can run more front tyre with the rear car than the mid without it getting all unnecessarily nervous on corner entry

Ultimately I found that I could run either configuration and be pretty racy. I don't know who was more shocked - me or the other racers but they say that every dog has his day - and mine was probably last weekend.

I'd recommend giving the rear motor a try - if nothing else, it will satisfy your curiosity. What I would say though is just as we all had to (re)learn the basics when we went to mid motored 2WD's to begin with, you have to re-train yourself to think like a rear motor. Its too easy to alter a shim and make the situation worse when you're trying to make it better because the two configurations do behave differently to each other.

I 'd be happy to run either configuration but I think I have more knowledge about what to do with a mid car when you need to make a judgement call on the set up as the track changes.
But I was very happy with my pace and although comparitively I was unable to judge the rear car's pace on the Sunday against the 4WDs, it felt better as I made subtle changes to end up on the setup that has been posted on tlracing.com (and I assume petitrc).

[Chalkie]

Can anyone give me some tips to get some more mid corner steering on my mid car? It turns in sharp but then pushes wide after that, i'd be quite happy to swap some turn in for some more grip in the second half of the corner.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Try raising the front inner link and/or lowering the outer one. That would have the effect of increasing grip in the latter part of a turn.

HTH.

[PaulUpton]

My latest setup, few tweaks from last ones, my car has loads of forward traction, I wll always start with this setup and change things if needed from there.

Front Suspension
Toe: 0'
Ride Height: wishbones slightly above level
Camber: 2'
Castor: 5'
Kick Angle: 25'
Oil: 32.5w
Piston: 3 hole 1.45mm tapered
Spring: Green
Spindle Type: Kit
Shock Limiters: 2mm
Shock Location: 2-middle
Bump Steer: 0mm
Camber Link: 1 - 2mm washers on tower, 0mm washers on hub

Rear Suspension
Chassis Configuration: Mid
Toe: 4'
Anti Squat: 1'
Roll Center: LRC
Ride Height: Driveshafts Level
Camber: 3'
Wheel Base: Long
Oil: 32.5w
Piston: 3 hole 1.55mm tapered
Spring: Orange
Shock Limiters: 0mm
Camber Link: 1-B (2mm under hub and tower ball joints)
Shock Locations: 2-inside

170g of brass under 96mm lipo and rear losi weight @50g

Front tyres: yellow staggers
Rear Tyres: yellow mini pins

Speed passion LPF
Ocra 6.5t motor
Savox slim servo

[Chalkie]

Originally Posted by Gnarly Old Dog

Try raising the front inner link and/or lowering the outer one. That would have the effect of increasing grip in the latter part of a turn.

HTH.

I've allready got 2mm on the inner pick up and 0mm on the outer with the longer link, would moving the front shocks to the inner hole on the tower help?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Chalkie

I've allready got 2mm on the inner pick up and 0mm on the outer with the longer link, would moving the front shocks to the inner hole on the tower help?

It maybe the rear is holding on to long! you could try packing the rear hub ball stud up or remove spacers from the inner rear ball stud! Also by moving the spacers between the caster block and the steering spindles all to the top this may help!

[Chalkie]

Originally Posted by Nick

It maybe the rear is holding on to long! you could try packing the rear hub ball stud up or remove spacers from the inner rear ball stud! Also by moving the spacers between the caster block and the steering spindles all to the top this may help!

I'm currently running position 2 E at the rear with 2mm on the inner and 3 mm on the outer, I will try removing the 2mm spacer on the inner ball stud for now.

[ianjoyner]

Thanks for the info Gnarly. I noticed you were running staggers on the front, was that the standard or the new cut staggers?

I take it they gave enough low speed steering?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

They were the old narrow staggers with dremelled cross cuts and fitted on wheels that I'd cut to be narrow.

TBH the weather probably influenced the grip more than the actual tyre but yes - in the dry runs it had 'enough' low speed.
The biggest change I felt was that it was safer at high speed at the end of the straight where with mini spikes it felt as if the grip from the grass wasn't consistent from lap to lap - sometimes it felt as if it would bite a bit harder than you needed but with the staggers, it was a little more forgiving to this.

The stagger was (IMO) a better all round option on the day.

I even ran Losi Silver Ribs and managed a decent enough round score but they were a little bit too safe for my liking.

[Razer]

In less than a week, I'll be leaving to go to the slippery clay track in Vaasa for the worlds. I did okay at the warmup, had a less than perfect qualifying, but still managed to be in the C-main together with Hupo, Tomcock and such.

Why I'm writing here though is because I have no idea how to make the car feel like I want it to... At the warmup, I just had to drive it very smooth and slow, I could never punch it. It was all about driving slow to carry speed, but I could never get anything extra out of the car if needed. My level was maxed out at driving the car quite slow.

I've tried a few things with springs and links, but the car seems to react very little to my changes, and it always has the feeling of floating on top of the surface; it never really digs in to find grip.

Also, trying to hit the throttle early will just end up in wheelspin, nothing more.

This makes it a struggle when there's a track with big jumps, as I neither get enough speed, and also I struggle with the car not having enough bounce to jump high and far enough even when I get the power down perfectly.

So that's where I am. I'm basically running Dustin Evans setup as a starting point, and I've tried a few things at my local track that hasn't really helped me a lot.

So I ask you, all Ooplefriends, any tips to radical things I can try whilst practising this last week? Also, some inputs in terms of pistons and oil on jumps are very welcome!

[DCM]

Well, I have come to the end of my patience with my 22, I cam going to pull the chassis off, to see if that is straight, if it is, I bloody give up on this car!

[PaulUpton]

What are you struggling with?

[DCM]

massive front end bite with very little rear traction mid to corner exit, and it isn't for want of trying, everything runs free, all suspension moves freely, even run someone elses setup that is understeery, and still it turns way to hard.

[Reo]

Originally Posted by DCM

massive front end bite with very little rear traction mid to corner exit, and it isn't for want of trying, everything runs free, all suspension moves freely, even run someone elses setup that is understeery, and still it turns way to hard.

old staggers wide, softfoam. stiffer spring\oil in front...? i drove with new cut staggers and the car hooked a lot, couldt push it. with old staggers and soft foam, i could push harder in turns. maby it helps ?

[DCM]

Done Staggers, cut stagger, slim mini's, ribs, tried Schumacher yellows, BB Greens, step pins, all does the same...

[jaydits]

Originally Posted by Razer

In less than a week, I'll be leaving to go to the slippery clay track in Vaasa for the worlds. I did okay at the warmup, had a less than perfect qualifying, but still managed to be in the C-main together with Hupo, Tomcock and such.

Why I'm writing here though is because I have no idea how to make the car feel like I want it to... At the warmup, I just had to drive it very smooth and slow, I could never punch it. It was all about driving slow to carry speed, but I could never get anything extra out of the car if needed. My level was maxed out at driving the car quite slow.

I've tried a few things with springs and links, but the car seems to react very little to my changes, and it always has the feeling of floating on top of the surface; it never really digs in to find grip.

Also, trying to hit the throttle early will just end up in wheelspin, nothing more.

This makes it a struggle when there's a track with big jumps, as I neither get enough speed, and also I struggle with the car not having enough bounce to jump high and far enough even when I get the power down perfectly.

So that's where I am. I'm basically running Dustin Evans setup as a starting point, and I've tried a few things at my local track that hasn't really helped me a lot.

So I ask you, all Ooplefriends, any tips to radical things I can try whilst practising this last week? Also, some inputs in terms of pistons and oil on jumps are very welcome!

hi we have had a lot of succes with this setup
great balance and lot of fun to drive
try it
only update is we use 32.5 oil in the back insted of 35
and you have to sand off a little bit of inside of rear hub for clearens of the turnbuckle

joey
ps the best of luck at the worlds

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...529/index.html

[Razer]

Originally Posted by jaydits

hi we have had a lot of succes with this setup
great balance and lot of fun to drive
try it
only update is we use 32.5 oil in the back insted of 35
and you have to sand off a little bit of inside of rear hub for clearens of the turnbuckle

joey
ps the best of luck at the worlds

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...529/index.html

That was a very interesting setup! I have a few sets of dampers, so this will be tested! Very interesting to see you use such a long link, should roll very much in the rear?

[jaydits]

we where struggeling in rear grip out of turns the biggest improvemet was the long link its stil very well ballanced front to rear
zero antisquat rounded it up car was realy fast and easy to drive
have tryed it 30 oil in the back car was bouncing a bit in a long curved section but keeps it grip i think 32.5 is the best
http://www.youtube.com/rcoffroadbe#p/u/8/ODkJWoXLgLo

its the yellow orange 22 in front

joey