mk racing indoor gp 16th dec

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Southwell

I would need to be something like a wire grid or possibly even tough perspex? It would be difficult to get something reasonably see through, yet strong enough to handle someone standing on it on a span that wide.

reading this topic, I thought of some sort of net, (like criket nets or hall dividers) but i think chicken wire would be fine

If you built a wooden frame, the width of the up and down ramp and long enough to cover the track, then brace it like X or +, it should be plenty strong enough, cars car roll if needed to plus you can see through it!

[c0sie]

Perspex is freaking expensive

[JCJC]

Originally Posted by Southwell

I would need to be something like a wire grid or possibly even tough perspex? It would be difficult to get something reasonably see through, yet strong enough to handle someone standing on it on a span that wide.

Originally Posted by antnee

reading this topic, I thought of some sort of net, (like criket nets or hall dividers) but i think chicken wire would be fine

If you built a wooden frame, the width of the up and down ramp and long enough to cover the track, then brace it like X or +, it should be plenty strong enough, cars car roll if needed to plus you can see through it!

Someone will stand or fall on it, marshals would need to be equiped with a pole to get out any cars under ! What width are we talking about ?

[sosidge]

Disclaimer first of all - I wasn't at the race meeting and I didn't see the track.

BUT dismiss the concerns of the people who found the open crossover difficult at your peril!

The real art of building a track is to make it straightforward for a beginner to get around, while also being challenging for a good driver.

It should NEVER be challenging for a good driver, but IMPOSSIBLE for a beginner.

That means half of the racers on the day are not having fun. And if people don't have fun they won't come back.

Rhythm sections, well spaced triples etc are easy to navigate at low speed but can also be taken at high speed by skilled drivers. Things like a crossover can never be taken at low speed. And don't forget that people have to marshal safely too.

Basically, if you couldn't get around the track with a box-stock Tamiya Hornet you have the wrong layout!

[Nick Goodall]

Originally Posted by sosidge

Disclaimer first of all - I wasn't at the race meeting and I didn't see the track.

BUT dismiss the concerns of the people who found the open crossover difficult at your peril!

The real art of building a track is to make it straightforward for a beginner to get around, while also being challenging for a good driver.

It should NEVER be challenging for a good driver, but IMPOSSIBLE for a beginner.

That means half of the racers on the day are not having fun. And if people don't have fun they won't come back.

Rhythm sections, well spaced triples etc are easy to navigate at low speed but can also be taken at high speed by skilled drivers. Things like a crossover can never be taken at low speed. And don't forget that people have to marshal safely too.

Basically, if you couldn't get around the track with a box-stock Tamiya Hornet you have the wrong layout!

Haha completely disagree with you there mate.

A Tamiya Hornet would struggle to get round most of the decent off road tracks! The Cross over had a kicker jump which honestly required hardly any speed to make it at all - i agree the standard speed of a Tamiya Hornet would make it, but whether the suspension would is another point....

Marshalling was not an issue any more then it ever is where there are jumps - you can't help that.

I think 98% of racers enjoyed it as you can tell by comments here including some electric virgins, most people seemed to like it.

[MK Racing]

First of, I would like Andy, Lee, Nick, Rob & the rest of the Newbury team for making this event happen.
Also I would like to thank all the racers who turned up to race, some traveling for over 3 hours in the morning!!!
My view on the track was that it was coooool, being a 1/8th racer I felt at home with the jumps, the current UK electric tracks are the main reason that I gave up electric racing many years ago, but jumps are the future

Originally Posted by sosidge

Basically, if you couldn't get around the track with a box-stock Tamiya Hornet you have the wrong layout!

I take it that this coment is a joke? I would love to see Lee or Nick run a Hornet round, bet it would surpise a few people Having raced a Hornet at the Tamiya meeting back in the 80's I recon it would have got round the track fine. I had some customers enter this meeting who were complete newbee's who had never raced before, they enjoyed it & loved the jumps.

Regarding the crossover, you need things to test your skills, yes I agree that if you jumped short you could have wrecked someone's run if you landed on them, but it was very easy to clear as Showtime proved but agreed that the run off on this could have been a few feet longer to allow you to overjump & not crash in to the track marker. At the end of the day this was our 1st big meeting & we knew that we would not get it 100% correct the 1st time.

We will take on all the comments for the next track, but big air is the future!!

Marc
MK Racing

[Elliott Hopkins]

This plebby new(ish)bie had a poor day, but still loved the crossover. It reminded me of Dukes of Hazard or those Matchbox car runs you could get when I was younger.

My more sensible point was that I could do the crossover with only a quarter throttle and no run up, in fact a 1/4 throttle gave me a perfect landing on the other side everytime.

I did however come off the side a couple of times.

Elliott.

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by frogger

How many people's car's were broken by newbies coming up short and landing on their cars on Sunday?

I broke at least one persons car badly enough to put them out of the race by coming up short ........ after 20 years racing and was an F2 last time I raced 1/10th nationals!!

New car, new type of motor, 5 years away from 2wd of any type ...

I can't remember the last time I drove a 1/10th buggy on a track where you had to lad a down ramp ...... 2001 maybe something like that.

You know I have respect for you carl after all the info you given me for the Exotek but please, chill buddy.

[Southwell]

Originally Posted by JCJC

Someone will stand or fall on it, marshals would need to be equiped with a pole to get out any cars under ! What width are we talking about ?

Well yeah, i don't think its fiesable to be honist. It's just going to be too low. I would just say put a bigger run off down and leave it at that. You need practically no power to jump it anyway....

[mobile chicane]

Originally Posted by rich_cree

yeh ok, 4 crossovers, big quad jump, banked corner????

banked corner COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLL

[ryan]

I've spent the past 20mins reading all the comments on the track and the dumbed 'dreaded crossover'......
Well I have a few reply's to them.

I only came into racing at the begining to last year and was guided by lee martin. I learnt after a short time with the help of a stock motor that i could go quicker round the tracks than i could with my modified. So, I moved to 19t 15t and 14turn motors and I started achiving the same results and over the two years i have been getting quicker the more i race i.e.practising.

Wat im saying is that no matter how many crossovers or big jumps you have it all boils down to one thing..... 'practice'.
If you cant do them well.... then do them slower untill you get them right.
I saw that people were simply planting the power down so they would over shoot the jump or crossover. For those who did not make it then you simply did not have enough power applied and it didnt take much to get across. Its the same with corners you slw down to go around some and some you dont. we all learn that so with jumps if it is agresive then you slow down so you dont jump as far.

And as for the question of if you fell short and hit a car going underneath on the crossover then you have to think about all the usual everyday what ifs. If i got a corner wrong and went over the piping i might hit some one. when i crash i could enter the wrong end of the main strait and wip out the leaders. theres always wat ifs and risks, but thats racing look at the american tracks. Do we here them complaining?

I understand all the peoples concerns and i enjoy the atmosphere when people are there if you are struggling then there maybe something you are doing wrong.
Dont sit there behind your keyboards and start moaning. Come speak to someone who can manage a certain jump or corner and im sure they will help as the hobby is all about the community that is brought together in that one meeting.



Trish

[ginger fixit]

guys

look i was watching from race control i would say for 95% of the day and i only saw 1 person cause a crash by not making the cross over and he had been hit on the kicker by another car.

the cross over will stay as will the table top possibly a bit bigger next time but guys get used to it we wil give a bit more room to land but i love the cross it looked ace to watch.
and i for 1 want racing at newbury to be memerable and leave you guys wanting more we will be running the cross over on our club nights so COME AND PRACTICE from time to time.

lee nick and tristan designed the best indoor track ive seen in ages.

i mean all the kickers worked they wernt just a flat piece of wood come on we need to get this type of racing in the uk places like cml and stotfold have bigger jumps and a wall of death (cml) and we all mange to do it shit it was hard at first but now we all do it full thottle.

CROSS OVER STAYS

thats it my final work if thats a bit strong then i appologise in advance but guys the offroad section of rc is about fun and pushing our selves and our cars to the limit not talking about how fast they went around a flat track jumps rule ok.

thanks Andy Bell (glad thats off my chest)

[ginger fixit]

thanks

[GRIFF55]

Dont sit there behind your keyboards and start moaning. Come speak to someone who can manage a certain jump or corner and im sure they will help as the hobby is all about the community that is brought together in that one meeting.
Trish[/quote]

I just said the same to my mate Trish, if you have any probs with anything at a race meeting, don't be afraid to ask someone with more experience, i do!!
Problems with handling, jumps, electrics whatever, i'm sure all would advise and help

[showtime]

the crossover was spot on & like Marc said, even i got over it allright

all the jumps were do-able with a couple of feet runup & having downramps as well took all of the impact away from your car when you timed them right

i thought the difficulty level of the track was bang on the money
you try a bit harder & you go a bit better
even i got better by the end of the day & i'm about as useless as you can get with a 2wd buggy!
the jumps were no problem at all, for me it was throttle/steering balance on the different surfaces

another definite YES vote to keep the crossover!

nowadays people seem to want jumps! (i know i do) and you've only got to look at the DXR events to see how popular Supercross style meetings have become in 8th!

people are even throwing tantrums because thet can't get in

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by Southwell

Well yeah, i don't think its fiesable to be honist. It's just going to be too low. I would just say put a bigger run off down and leave it at that. You need practically no power to jump it anyway....

Ian, a longer section after the down would stop the problems with coming up short due to people trying to land the down ramp on the brakes (to make up for having none) to make the corner.
It however wouldn't solve the problem of having no way out if you couldn't jump it for some reason (haivng to swerve to avoid a car having it's own accident or just given up the ghost for example).



I like the idea of distance jumping giving a bonus in lap times as I've said but still believe that you should be able to roll any feature.



In 2006 at the Great Yarmouth national they had a series of dips which were basically just 3 JCB scoops out of the ground about 0.5m apart. Now there was no problem driving them if you could get a decent entry and carry speed but if you got stuck, most often because somebody had cocked up the entry and ended up on their roof you got stuck in them as you could drive out of them from a standstill.
Marshals got hurt, engines cut, cars got broken and tempers more so. The track was basically good apart from that one feature but it was enough to pee off quite a few people!!!!

Difficult features are cool ..... jumps are cool .... flat tracks are dull agree with all that 100%. Equally features that can't be rolled cause marshalling problems, broken cars, broken spirits and people have crappy days .. some times there last ever day racing!!!


As for the people saying "practice practice practice" they are dead right ..... but where???? Only track I can think of that has the sort of features you can practice jumping on is CML raceway. Lee and Nick seem to be the only people (as far as I know ... maybe wrong ..... actually I am .. just read the Worksop thread ..... why nobody in the west mids though ) putting big jumps indoors. It's great to say build jumps at home but that only works if you have a garden to build on in ..... I couldn't even build a decent jump in my garden for my micro ... swing a cat ..... no .. maybe one of it's fleas!!

I suggest those needing the jumping practice badger Lee to open up CML Raceway in the new year for some fun ..... I have
You lads local to CML don't realise how lucky you are .... or indeed how much advantage you have over some of us on these sort of tracks!!!

Most people building temporary tracks think a jump is a bit of flat plywood 6" off the ground ... doesn't really help. I agree this is more than a bit pants....


Lee and Nick have been very understanding and thoughtful about the comments we have all made, they have assured us that the next track will be the best ever (and I believe it) so can we please move on. I would hate to think that my comments, or anybody elses, would stop Lee and Nick building an interesting track .... I know that will never happen so am not really worried. All people have asked is that it is safe for marshals, drivable (if a little slow lapping) for less practiced "feature" drivers .. no matter how much racing experience they have and fun for all. That is what I am sure we'll get next time.

Consider me pre-booked for all future meetings ..... even after the most sh17 days racing in a long long time.

[MK Racing]

Roger,

I would not say that Nick & Lee have been "cold" about the comments given, they worked very hard on Saturday building the track, they were not paid to do this, they did it for FREE, so giving them a hard time is out of order.

I would say that 95% of the racers who attended the meeting were happy with the layout & will be back for the meetings in 2008.

As in my other post, you can not build a track to suit every one, we wanted this meeting to be differant & that is why we had a track with jumps.

If you just have a jump that you have land hard on a flat surface this will unsettle the car, that is why we had spaced jumps so you could hop/roll or jump both & land on the down of the 2nd.

I feel that the crossover needs to be a feature in the next track & im sure that Lee, Nick or any other top drives will give tips to the lesser drivers if asked on how to jump it.

Marc
MK Racing

[c0sie]

Maybe its peoples perceptions of the current flat racing that is the issue here?

Maybe so many people are used to small jumps..and have never had experience of such big jumps?

You'd like to hope that atleast one person went away from the event having never tackled a big jump or crazy cross over before..drooling at the thought of doing it again

Embrace new directions..jumps are the way forwards...or upwards in this case

[RogerM]

I'll edit "cool" as I meant it in a fonzie sort of way not a disinterested sort of way.....

I know what your saying Mark. As for jumping I like you left 1/10th a few years ago to go 1/8th rallycross to get more airtime so know what you mean there too!!! I'm normally pretty good on jumps, didn't miss the lander on the table top at Craig Harris's meeting the week before once .... but if I had there was sufficient space to get the car pointing in the right direction before the corner anyway but you were punished as the following 180deg corner was on slippy stuff.

It's not the juming I object to, not at all ... must not have been very clear in the previous comments .... it's having no choice but to.

Here is a question for you ...... the quickest thing to do would be to have just dropped of the upper left handed and miss out the whole section of the track. Now if anybody had tried that you'd have had to penalise them for corner cutting but they would have a valid argument that they couldn't make the jump with confidence so took the only alternative they had ..... does that make sense????? Does that make my point clearer???

Far from slagging off the crew I've tried to praise them for their efforts, promised to attend the next meetings and contacted both Lee and Andy via PM about getting some jumping practice at their respective venues ..... hardly a vote of no-confidence.

I hope that clears up my point of view a little ..... off to edit that post.

[_JP_]

Roger, if you get the 8th out you could practice at Frankley I know they have jumps not sure how "electric friendly" frankley is. I suppose I could get my Hongnor out again!

As much as I don't really enjoy the 8th, you have to say one thing the tracks are good and fun with jumps, were supposed to be OFF ROAD racers and the amount of tracks I have been to that are flat is shocking.

Guys it don't matter how good a track you design or make some one will moan and not like it.