Anti Squat

[madmax]

it sits the wishbones level, as the std car rear pivot point sits lower doing it this way is like on the cougar and the X6 adjust antisquat.

[Robbiejuk]

Originally Posted by Dave Dodd

I think thats more pro-squat than anti-squat as u've lifted the rear rather than than the front of the wishbone...

Yeah I am confused by the pictures to.. From what I can tell the block has been flattened at the top and raised up.

Now that is going to raise the pin at the back making the wishbones slope downwards, towards the front of the car surely?

On the X6, my previous 2wd buggy before I went Ansmann, to add antiquat you removed the washers underneath the block, to reduce anti squat you added washers underneath the block. I can imagine the cougar would be the same system.

Basically if your car has antisquat the front of the wishbones will be higher than the back of the wishbones.

This page has a nice little diagram showing the difference between anti squat and pro squat:

http://www.competitionx.com/rc-racin...ng-anti-squat/

[bigred5765]

what lee is trying to say is the car has 2 degrees of anti squat to start of with, so the front is already higher than the rear, buy raising the rear he is come close to 0 degrees

[madmax]

ta carl that is what i was trying to say, i gave one of these blocks to a madmonkey driver and he gave some positive feedback

[Smurfster]

Here's my mod, works very well, but makes the back end a little weak, so refining my idea and will post an update as soon as have strength tested it.

[university_dave]

We've been doing a large amount of design work on the X2C as a new project and we can spin off the rear end solution as a standalone option if people are interested.

Basically, the rear T-piece is replaced with 2.5mm carbon fibre, two aluminium cradles support the gearbox and the RF pivot block and an aluminium RR pivot block sits on the carbon fibre as a separate piece. This is set up to give kit toe and anti-squat (3.5 & 1.0 degrees respectively). However, anti-squat can be changed using spacers under either the RF or RR blocks. If there was demand we would also be able to produce optional blocks to change toe-in and rear track width.

All parts will be anodised (colour TBC at the moment) and the pivot blocks will be engraved with their pin centre distances.

CAD image should be below, if anyone is interested please let me know.

[nicVEGAchildJR]

I'll have 3 of them if you make them

[stumpiey]

i would be intrested, what sort of money are we looking at ?
black or gun metal grey would be good colours

[Kusal]

Very interested!
Gun metal grey please

[Smurfster]

Also be very interested, provided the price is right. Green would be my choice of colour.

[university_dave]

Right, got the final costs for all the components in and the RRP would be £55. In the kit would be the following;

1 x 2.5mm carbon fibre T-piece
2 x anodised aluminium gearbox cradles
1 x anodised & engraved RF pivot block
1 x anodised & engraved RR pivot block
4 x hinge pin mounting balls
4 x 1.0mm shims
2 x 2.0mm shims
4 x 20mm countersunk screws
2 x 10mm M3 countersunk screws
4 x M3 nyloc nuts

Optional RF & RR pivot blocks to change the track width and toe in would be £12.00 - there will be 2 of each available to give a toe range of 2.5-4.5 degrees and track width options of between -1.5 and + 1.5mm.

Any feedback would be great. If there's enough interest then I'll get a batch produced.

[madmax]

i think what you have developed is good but over engineered, but that is my opinion,

how have you solved the point of the gearbox when mounted to the t pice the screws go most of the way to the bottom of the t pice, and if you are going to run the screws from the bottom up it would be almost impossible to get a nut on the front left as it sits tight between the gearbox and the motor plate

[university_dave]

Screws go straight through the T-piece, the cradles and the gearbox with nuts that sit on the top. I suspect for the one that will sit behind the motor plate that either a set of needle nose pliers will be needed or that the motor plate will need to be moved out of the way whilst this nut is tightened. It is a one-time problem as once the gearbox has been attached the nut shouldn't need to be accessed again.

The question of how much engineering needs to be done is an interesting one. If a product looks at all half-arsed and needs a dremel to fit then, in my opinion, there is no point in selling it. The only reason why you would be interested in a kit like this is that you want something that has been carefully designed to fit correctly, with no modifications or additional parts required, and offers something that can't be achieved by someone sat at home in their shed with basic modelling tools (drill, dremel and hammer...). We could have done this without the gearbox cradles and just used spacers between the gearbox and the T-piece, but we feel this will give much more strength to the back of the car and, as such, is a much more robust and appropriate solution. For any company looking to sell a product there needs to be confidence in the long-term performance and durability of it. You only need to read the C4.1 chassis thread to see the complications that can result from bringing a performance product to market. If you are doing a one-off conversion then this is less of an issue, especially if it is for yourself.

[Tom3012]

I like it, just redesign it slighly so the 4 gearbox screws screw in at a different place to the 4 cradle to t-piece screws? If that makes sense...?

That way you can screw in top and bottom

[Robbiejuk]

Originally Posted by Tom3012

I like it, just redesign it slighly so the 4 gearbox screws screw in at a different place to the 4 cradle to t-piece screws? If that makes sense...?

That way you can screw in top and bottom

Looking at the cad image it would only need two holes to be moved as the front of the cradle is held in by the the front block. I think

Would be good not having to use a nut to hold the gearbox in place as I can see that being a right pain in the ass whilst maintaining track side. A bit like trying to ad washers in to raise the gearbox on an x6.

[nicVEGAchildJR]

Originally Posted by nicVEGAchildJR

I'll have 3 of them if you make them

At that price Nooooo way

[Robbiejuk]

Originally Posted by nicVEGAchildJR

At that price Nooooo way

I don't think the price is too bad, considering a Carbon T Piece for the X2 / Mad rat is 20 quid, Aluminum rear blocks for the x2/ mad rat are 15 to 20 quid depending where you get them from. So with those plus all the mounting hardware and also the gearbox cradles to it was kind of the price I expected.

[madmax]

at that sort of money i think it is to much.

you mention that you are looking at selling them the car is based primerialy at the club level racer so when developing a part alot of the time it will start with using a drill / dremel / hammer even a screwdriver. the SX3 first prototype developed in this way,
easy maintenence trackside and performance to me has to be at the top of the list when developing a part look at the durango 410 4 screws to remove the front diff.

but then this is just my oppinion

[university_dave]

Ok, so as a result of the work we've been doing on the full car, we do now have the parts for a stand-alone rear end conversion. This will allow the rear anti-squat to be changed by adding spacers under the RF and RR pivot blocks. This retains the kit geometry (1.0 degree of anti squat and 3.5 degrees of toe in), but by adding a 0.5 mm washer under the RR block this will give 0.0 degrees of anti squat, whilst every 0.5mm shim that is put under the RF block will give 1.0 degree of anti squat.

As you can see we've taken the feedback in this thread on board and have revised the gearbox cradles so the gearbox is mounted with its own screws.

[lordnikon]

I think this is awesome, proper engineering for the ansmann brand. Ok so its as much as a monkey kit but this allows for more tweaking which will only allow the brand to be raced more competitively at a higher level

Where can we order the kits ? As said the price seems high but when you add up the parts as current hop ups its not to bad tbh