need some help

[hammerhead]

thanks daz for the support i understand where the others are coming from but as you say if so many are closing i think it should be time to start changing that or yes you will get stung with income tax which is what we dont want ok so im no expert on the racing side of it but the track itself is just the sideline part of it as a extra the shop is the main buisness and like i said before you either have to travel about 20 mile away to get the bits your after (if they stock them) or order online and wait x amount of time for them to arrive. at least if theres a hobby shop in our town it might bring more people to thew hobby which then generates more buisness.
i know its going to be a challenge but hey if i dont do it some one else might and if they did and sucseeded id be gutted i didnt make my move first.
the track im on about doing will only be a small one to start that might get some kids off the street and into the hobby with a place to go and use the cars and then later on build it up aslong as buisness is good.
well thanks for all the advice chaps good and bad its all advice needed and once its all up and running id like to think id see some of you there

[dale]

Originally Posted by shanks

Don't agree mate

Is stellios a pilot? (easyjet) etc etc

No need to be in something directly to run a business

The question here is how much is the unit you intend to rent??

He may not be a pilot, but I bet he'd at least flown on planes for a few years before setting up an airline.

[jcb]

Originally Posted by Bob Burr

A accountant will be of absolutly no use in setting up a business, they mearly deal with bookwork and will have no idea of weather your business will fail or succeed.

That would depend on the accountant you know!!

Fair enough not all of them are going to know about model car racing, but where I work does


http://www.jemmettfox.com/Home

[hammerhead]

Originally Posted by shanks

Don't agree mate

Is stellios a pilot? (easyjet) etc etc

No need to be in something directly to run a business

The question here is how much is the unit you intend to rent??

the unit itself is 4k per annum then there is £250 legal fees and a service charge of £270 wich might be reduced due to buisnes rates

[Hog]

Originally Posted by Bob Burr

A accountant will be of absolutly no use in setting up a business, they mearly deal with bookwork and will have no idea of weather your business will fail or succeed.

I think you're confusing "Accountant" with "Book-keeper"! It's my job as an accountant to advise on all aspects financial - in particular what is working for the business and what isn't.

Originally Posted by jcb

That would depend on the accountant you know!!

Fair enough not all of them are going to know about model car racing, but where I work does

Does that make me the resident Oople Management Accountant then?

Stelios may not be a pilot but he employs pilots. Hammerhead is not looking to employ someone to run the shop for him!

Good luck - but as someone who sees businesses failing every day currently - be very careful with your venture.

[Bob Burr]

No i am not mixing up book keeper with accountant, all an accountant does is work with figures and tax laws eg the figues wrote doen in the books, how can an accountant tell if a new business venture is going to succeed or not, if i tell you im hopeing to turn over 3 million in my first year wiith outgoings of £100 you will tell me its sure to be a success and i will soon have my own Ferarri and private jet.
Yes you can tell an exisiting business what is working and what is not (but a good business man doesnt need an accountant for that) but you have absolutly no idea of a business that doesnt exist yet as there are no figures of income only what are estimated outgoings, in all my business,s ( i have worked for myself for nearly 35 years running 3 very succesfull business,s) an accountant was way down the list of priorities.

Just trying to help the guy get the right advise, and the best there is is to go to a small business advise centre, they have experience of the pitfalls of setting up a new business, the hidden costs we all forget, not to over estimate what the income will be etc, oh and forget asking your bank for help, they wont want to know till you are making money then they will be all over you.

[Col]

So, just to clarify Bob... are you telling Hog what he does for his job?

[hammerhead]

Originally Posted by Bob Burr

No i am not mixing up book keeper with accountant, all an accountant does is work with figures and tax laws eg the figues wrote doen in the books, how can an accountant tell if a new business venture is going to succeed or not, if i tell you im hopeing to turn over 3 million in my first year wiith outgoings of £100 you will tell me its sure to be a success and i will soon have my own Ferarri and private jet.
Yes you can tell an exisiting business what is working and what is not (but a good business man doesnt need an accountant for that) but you have absolutly no idea of a business that doesnt exist yet as there are no figures of income only what are estimated outgoings, in all my business,s ( i have worked for myself for nearly 35 years running 3 very succesfull business,s) an accountant was way down the list of priorities.

Just trying to help the guy get the right advise, and the best there is is to go to a small business advise centre, they have experience of the pitfalls of setting up a new business, the hidden costs we all forget, not to over estimate what the income will be etc, oh and forget asking your bank for help, they wont want to know till you are making money then they will be all over you.

thanks for reply bob i have a meeting tomorow with a buisness advisor and going to write up my buisness plan as for the bank they can suck on eggs for all i care lol there is a plan for grants that are to help new small buisness get up and running with quite resonable rates i have to go see them on friday to discuss everything

[Nige]

Without prior experience it sounds a high risk venture = potential to lose lots of cash ££££

Whilst writing your business plan it might be worthwhile looking for employment within a model shop and start racing!

[Hog]

Originally Posted by Col

So, just to clarify Bob... are you telling Hog what he does for his job?

Apparently so - 24 years working in both practice and in the commercial field obviously gives me no qualification to comment.

Originally Posted by Bob Burr

all an accountant does is work with figures and tax laws eg the figues wrote doen in the books

Oh how wrong you are.......

Originally Posted by Bob Burr

(i have worked for myself for nearly 35 years running 3 very succesfull business,s) an accountant was way down the list of priorities.

Perhaps if you'd bothered to get yourself a decent accountant in the first place, you wouldn't still need to be working 35 years later.........

[jcb]

Originally Posted by Hog

Apparently so - 24 years working in both practice and in the commercial field obviously gives me no qualification to comment.



Oh how wrong you are.......




Perhaps if you'd bothered to get yourself a decent accountant in the first place, you wouldn't still need to be working 35 years later.........

Couldn't agree with you more



Anyway perhaps we should get back to the subject in hand...................





Personally I think research into the local area would be the way to start, after all there are two shops in Dereham which have accounts with model car distributors and there was a model plane shop at one point too.

Also how many kids in the schools would be interested in car racing and more to the point how many could convince their parents to spend £200 on a model car for them. Having people interested in something is completely different to them going out and spending money on it.

[Bob Burr]

For your own sake do a rough business plan to see whether the business would be viable.
First add up all your known expenditure, rent, service charge, rates, electric, phone, repairs, credit card machine, credit card charges, insurance, alarm system upkeep, advertising (yelow pages etc) no need for some expensive accountant there .
Then work out what you need to live on eg £200 a week would be £10,000 a year, add these together (you may need an accountant for this ) then times this by 4 ? this is your net priofit after VAT and that is what you need to turn over to survive.
Then your start up costs, simply stock ? £10 to £15 aproximatly to start, plus obviously fitting out the shop with counters, shelves, till etc, putting in phone line, fitting alarm plus any security like shutters and grills, and they are your start up costs.
Always over estimate your running costs and always under estimate your income, PM me and i will give you rough costs on things like Alarms and insurance etc.
DONT absolutly dont realy on racers they are to fickle and will simply go where its cheepest as a general rule, Do expand your range as much as posible, Boats, planes, helies and general model suplies, you will sell far more of these than race stuff.

Those that can do it those that cant become accountants

[hammerhead]

Originally Posted by jcb

Couldn't agree with you more



Anyway perhaps we should get back to the subject in hand...................





Personally I think research into the local area would be the way to start, after all there are two shops in Dereham which have accounts with model car distributors and there was a model plane shop at one point too.

Also how many kids in the schools would be interested in car racing and more to the point how many could convince their parents to spend £200 on a model car for them. Having people interested in something is completely different to them going out and spending money on it.

the shops here dont stock and wont stock model cars ive asked and there is only one the other one shut years ago the one remaining stocks stuff for railways etc they dont have boats planes cars etc christ they dont even stock servos and radio gear they have a couple of tamiya lunchbox cars in the shop but that is it as i said before there are a few kids/big kids around the area that do use rc cars and i think if the option to purchace a decent rc car/plane/boat they may well do. how many people buy somthing off the net per year with no knowlege of the hobby plenty id say but given the chance to come into a store and ask whats what is more preferable. as for the advertising side of things printing flyers and distributing them door to door posters etc will all be taken care of by me and my partner the store that i will be renting has a alarm fitted and cctv all around it not inside but on the outside a till well they can be picked up cheap enough on the bay as with a credit card machine. all of these costs will be acounted for in my overall expenditures.
oh forgot went to see the property today like some one stated in a earlier post there wont be room for a track but tobe honest the model shop is my main priority and as said before once the buisness has expanded i will then look into a place for a track.


oh and lads dont get under each others shirts about it lol i only asked for some advice

[Hog]

Hammerhead - perhaps you should speak to someone who knows what they're talking about and can advise on you on what the difference is between "running costs" and "capital expenditure" - the difference between the running expenditure (what will show you a profit/loss in your opening period) and what goes on to your Balance Sheet as assets and liabilities.

All I can do is advise you to do as much research as possible before you dive in. I've tried to help but Bob obviously knows my job far better than I do so I'll leave it up to his expert opinion to guide you on your merry way. Good luck!!

[hammerhead]

Originally Posted by Hog

WOW!!! Really??? I'm sure Revenue & Customs would love to come and talk to you and look through your books Did we even mention VAT? I would suspect that for a while he wouldn't even need to register for VAT as his turnover wouldn't be over the threshold.


Hammerhead - perhaps you should speak to someone who knows what they're talking about and can advise on you on what the difference is between "running costs" and "capital expenditure" - the difference between the running expenditure (what will show you a profit/loss in your opening period) and what goes on to your Balance Sheet as assets and liabilities.

All I can do is advise you to do as much research as possible before you dive in. I've tried to help but Bob obviously knows my job far batter than I do so I'll leave it up to his expert opinion to guide you on your merry way.

hey bob thanks for the help i know not to dive in i am going to do as much research as possible before anything happens i have a apointment to day with my buisness advisor and ill get him to explain everything to me down to the last cup of coffy being made on the premises lol as the last thing i want is for this to fail its going to be my livleyhood after all the last thing i wanted was for people having digs at each other on the thread so i will let you all know what my advisor says after ive seen him

[hammerhead]

well went to see my buisness advisor today and wasnt good basicly my overheads would be way to high for me to make a income from the shop he recon id need to make £600pw profit it seems a tad high but the guy knows what hes doing so his advice was taken on board so unfortunatly the dream of having my own rc shop is withering away in the mist thanks for all the advice guys lets just hope that no more have to shut so we all dont get stung for inport taxes etc oh well no harm in having a dream eh

[Nige]

Maybe it is possible, but you just need to scale back your dream.

So consider starting a:
- Web-shop
- Trackside-shop

Much lower overheads as you wouldn't need business premises. Then depending on how that goes, expand until eventually you can afford a shop with a track.

[Bob Burr]

The main trade supliers wont deal with internet only dealers and track side is a waste of time for 2 reasons, one like above you need premises to get spares and 2 there is not enough profit from just doing trackside (pocket money), 4 years ago there was but not now, most guys both on and off road take all there stuff with them, they may need the odd body clip or glo plug but not much more.
Yes before you all start im sure there are exceptions to this but not many ergo Microtec and Models in motion going to name just a couple of the many.

[Jnunu1]

Originally Posted by jcb

That would depend on the accountant you know!!

Fair enough not all of them are going to know about model car racing, but where I work does


http://www.jemmettfox.com/Home

Nice website - very non-accountant.

[jcb]

Originally Posted by hammerhead

well went to see my buisness advisor today and wasnt good basicly my overheads would be way to high for me to make a income from the shop he recon id need to make £600pw profit it seems a tad high but the guy knows what hes doing so his advice was taken on board so unfortunatly the dream of having my own rc shop is withering away in the mist thanks for all the advice guys lets just hope that no more have to shut so we all dont get stung for inport taxes etc oh well no harm in having a dream eh

Dreams should never be forgotten. Have to be completely honest and say I don't get why you need to make £600 profit per week, but thats most likely as I don't know the whole storey.

You'll have to pop along to a race meeting at Norfolk Buggy Club if off roads your thing. There aren't many club members but it's friendly and we have a good time.

Originally Posted by Jnunu1

Nice website - very non-accountant.

Thanks