Turkish GP..dont read if you haven't seen it. :)

[reg]

it does show that they dont get on,racers have been in the same position many times,the person on the inside(vett)would eather stay there and just block the inside line at the apex of the corner,or as there was plenty of time befor the corner,move over slowly,giving the other driver a chance to move or cut back on the inside by late braking,webber just held the racing line,hoping to force vett to out brake himself on the dirt and over shoot the corner,

[dave g]

does make you wonder if horner had called for webber to go into fuel saving mode just so vettel could pass him..horner has liar written all over his face.

[DCM]

Originally Posted by dave g

does make you wonder if horner had called for webber to go into fuel saving mode just so vettel could pass him..horner has liar written all over his face.

I agree, makes you wonder about the rumours about Webber moving at the end of the season aren't wrong.

[reg]

Originally Posted by DCM

I agree, makes you wonder about the rumours about Webber moving at the end of the season aren't wrong.

i think the same thing happend with button and lewis but button thought sod that im off

[Alfonzo]

I thought it was Vettel, although to be honest racing that close at those sort of speeds with that poor a visibility, it's amazing we don't see more incidents like this. What about Alonzo overtaking that Russian dude, and giving him a puncture in the process? You wouldn't be happy with that!

Brilliant season. Looking forward to seeing more of Hamilton doing his thing, he's great to watch on the track.

[DCM]

to be honest, they are paid enough that their spacial awareness should be top notch!!

[telboy]

Agree. I just think Vettel thought the track at the side of him was clear. Assuming that Webber had moved onto the racing line for the corner.

I've followed Webber since his Formula Ford days, and was glad to see him in F1 especially now that he has a competetive car.
I also agree that Red Bull need to start sorting stuff out. Midpoint in the season is coming up and Webber is leading the championship, but with the new points system, things can change SOOO quickly. It only takes a mechanical failure for Webber and a win for Vettel, and things are back level. Having the 25 points for a win is going to make this chamionship got to the wire for deffo. But by mid point or three quarter point at least, the teams need to be favouring a driver for the title.....otherwise this could happen again, removing them both from the running.
I just think Red Bull have made it clear already who they are favouring.
But to be honest, I think Webber could end up being the most consistent of the two. Vettel seem to be a bit too keen to throw races away in high pressure situations.

Don't get me wrong I like Vettel too, but he just seems a bit too random with his action on track. It sometimes seem all or nothing.

[dave g]

as someone once said..assumption is the mother of all f*** ups

[qatmix]

Vettel was in the wrong, he tried a similar move earlier in the race to hamilton. I have to admit, the most 'wrong' thing about it all was the team hugging Vettel after the incident.. Shows which camp they are in.

[telboy]

...also makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.....and he sure did that! lol

[SlowOne]

Blimey, I didn't realise I was amongst people who knew all these drivers and Christian Horner so well they could tell me what they were feeling, how they behave and whether they lie or not!! I hope an outsiders contribution is welcome...

I think that Vettel caused that crash, and that Button decided that he didn't want a crash, and backed out of it in Turn 1. To me that is a difference between someone with enough nous and experience to know which battles to fight, and which not to fight, in order to win the war.

If we go back to similar fights in the past, we find that Alain Prost (Suzuka 1989) had decided he wasn't going to give way to every forceful move by Senna, so just turned in at the chicane when Senna came up the inside from somewhere in the next postcode! Mansell and Piquet - the hot-headed Brummie threw it all away in Suzuka '87 trying for a pole position he didn't need, crashed, and was out for the rest of the season handing the title to the hated Piquet.

The car and body language of Weber suggests to me that he already knew he wasn't an equal in Red Bull, so when Vettel comes alongside he does a Prost - keeps his line, makes Vettel do the work. Webers's clean whatever happens!

Hamilton is, I think, smarting from being outdone by a driver with more nous and experience. It's hard to see how Button comes to pass him, but having done it, Hamilton seems to stop at nothing to get back. Come Turn 1, Hamilton is going to get through, and Button seems to know it. My guess is that Hamilton thought (as did lots of people, including me) he would hand Button his arse on a plate - hasn't happened! Am I the only one who thinks Hamilton is high-maintenance, and Button not, for the McLaren team?

Anyway, it's something we can talk about by the water cooler!! More please!!

[dave g]

did you not see the interview with horner then?

[DCM]

If I were Webber, I would be sticking two fingers up to Team Orders

[mdb_75]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Hamilton is, I think, smarting from being outdone by a driver with more nous and experience. It's hard to see how Button comes to pass him, but having done it, Hamilton seems to stop at nothing to get back. Come Turn 1, Hamilton is going to get through, and Button seems to know it. My guess is that Hamilton thought (as did lots of people, including me) he would hand Button his arse on a plate - hasn't happened!

The thing is Hamilton was told to save fuel and that both cars were the same -Button had to save fuel too. Whether or not they needed to save fuel or whether it was code for -stay as you are and don't push I don't know!

I think that as far as Hamilton was concerned they were just cruising to the finish as they were, but Button decided otherwise. He took Hamilton by surprise -as it would do if you'd been told both cars had to slow down! I think Hamilton saw it as a stab in the back by his team mate Button. That's why he took the place straight back as soon as he could and why there was no celebrating going on after the chequered flag in the car or at anytime before they were on the podium!

Did you hear just before they went out on the podium Hamilton asking Button what he had been told about saving fuel and Lewis stopped when he saw the cameras were there?!!

It was a dirty trick by Button if you ask me!

[DCM]

I do think Button's driving style makes his tyres last longer and in doing so, uses less fuel to.

[MattW]

Save fuel doesn't necessarily mean don't pass. To save fuel you would need to turn the engine down. Assuming that the engine had been turned down, that doesn't stop you passing someone. If both engines are turned down to the same level, if the guy behind gets a toe, then he could still pass.

[Alfonzo]

I believe what happened was Hamilton was told to go to fuel save, and was under the impression from his engineer that Button was in the same position, but 'twas not the case and past he came! Love it. Fair play to Hamilton, didn't hang around claiming it back.

[DCM]

Button and Hamilton have gone up in my expectations after Turkey, clean fighters, going wheel to wheel, Button being opportunistic and forceful, Hamilton having the brains and skill to keep his car in the right position to get the move on turn 1, I think Whitmarsh will have as much hair as Ron Dennis by the end of the season!!

[Alfonzo]

Yeah, reckon the prospect of them 'doing a Redbull' must have knocked a couple of years off him!

[telboy]

I think all of this 'saving fuel' rubbish is a load of crap.

They're supposed to be fuelled to the end?! no?
Understandibly they want the cars to be as light as possible. But surely if you put a little bit more fuel in, then you can run the whole race with the engine turned up! Thus, being able to race flat out for the whole race!...and not have to slow down at a time when others could make a pass at the end of the race.

The FIA should make them run with the tanks 'over-full' so as to stop any 'hidden' team orders like 'Fuel critical', which we all know meant 'slow down and stop fighting'.

Basically they will never stop team orders as it will all be done in the board room before the race.
Sure I heard Horner mention a little 'agreement' they have at Red Bull about who ever leads after the pitstops, the order stays the same to the end. Did anyone else hear that a couple of races ago?