Why do the USA guys have stock class?

[fidspeed]

There are a few aspects here here's my twopennorth

where i race (touring Cars) we run two classes our "stock class" allows 27t brushed motors or 15.5 and above brushless or prostock 13.5 brushless .
we run on a polished wood floor anything above 13.5 is pointless as there is not enough grip.
brushed technology is not dead ,admittedly brushless is taking over .but while i can purcase top spec brushed speedos for £20 and motors for pennies i can still be competitve in stock class
brushless tech is not cheap and many youngsters and dads ! just cannot afford it . Many of us started with a tamiya and a clockwork charger from our local model shop. that avenue is slowly closing
not all of of us want to race at any more than club level.

just my opinion (my wife says i can have one just this once)

Dave Fiddling Louth radio Control Car Club

[MRD]

Originally Posted by fidspeed

Many of us started with a tamiya and a clockwork charger from our local model shop

I think I might still have one with a mechanical timer . What a way to charge batteries.

[Alfonzo]

Better than the old Mardave Ministock supplied charger. Twas just a resistor, not even a timer! So opportunities for burning yourself and exploding Nicads!

Sorry - off topic

[Hog]

Originally Posted by DaSloth

If you could double or triple the size of your hall, people would run mod right?

If we had a hall 2 or 3 times the size then we would possibly open up to a mod class. But then part of the reason behind running stock is as others have quoted - any more power and there just isn't the grip available on a polished wooden floor.

Some of the appeal of the stock class is the close racing it encourages - there's not the "have or have not" element - and after all close racing is what makes it fun!

[Richard Lowe]

In my experience the guys in the US are a bit more conservative with their motor choice vs their skill level. In my visits over there for the Clash I don't think I've ever seen someone driving a motor they can't handle. But over here goto any random club meeting and 50% of the field are running way more power than they can handle/take advantage of.

It's us that are power mad

Years ago at Harrogate club meetings we ran the same 27t's in a stock class for a season or so and it was some of the best racing I've ever done. The cars were so underpowered and slow every tiny thing with your driving made a difference, and as everyone used the same motor and agreed we weren't going to fiddle with them everyones was the same speed.

[pugboy]

Originally Posted by Richard Lowe

In my experience the guys in the US are a bit more conservative with their motor choice vs their skill level. In my visits over there for the Clash I don't think I've ever seen someone driving a motor they can't handle. But over here goto any random club meeting and 50% of the field are running way more power than they can handle/take advantage of.

It's us that are power mad

Years ago at Harrogate club meetings we ran the same 27t's in a stock class for a season or so and it was some of the best racing I've ever done. The cars were so underpowered and slow every tiny thing with your driving made a difference, and as everyone used the same motor and agreed we weren't going to fiddle with them everyones was the same speed.

I would agree with this, I used to race at a similar club in Poynton, Cheshire in a relatively small hall about 20 years ago. Everyone ran the 27t 12 quid motors as they were then but we were able to lay pretty tight tracks and the racing was very close and the lack of straight line speed was simply not an issue. You couldn't afford a single mistake if you wanted to win. There was a regular turn out of 50+ drivers every Wed evening. They used to have Std class in the Radio Race Car outdooor series which again was very close racing, and although the lack of speed was much more apparent on the outdoor tracks it was a way in to the sport for novices not to feel too overawed and to learn basic driving skills before 'graduating' to modified class.

Coming back to racing last year after a number of years out and straight into modified brushless was in at the deep end and a club like the one of old would defintely have been beneficial in getting my skills up again.

My experience of starting in the bottom heats again has been varied and I think that a Stock class (or even just one or two heats at a bigger meeting) would be useful for the novices to all compete together and not have the issues where one car is driving up the straight at half the speed of the others, and weaving as they go, whereas if they had a stock class that would not happen.

[mole2k]

Originally Posted by pugboy

My experience of starting in the bottom heats again has been varied and I think that a Stock class (or even just one or two heats at a bigger meeting) would be useful for the novices to all compete together and not have the issues where one car is driving up the straight at half the speed of the others, and weaving as they go, whereas if they had a stock class that would not happen.

Part of the issue with that is that I know of quite a few drivers in that sorta position in the bottom heats wouldnt go and race in a stock heat as they would want to be racing what the vast majority of people race.

I would love to arrange a night at my local club on polishwood where we all switch to silvercans just for a bit of fun.

[Si Coe]

Thing is everyone always says control classes are a great idea, saves money, makes it all about the driver etc, but they forget a tiny little point.
If the class prevents the other guy having an equipment advantage over you, it also prevents you having an advantage over them too. The idea that the best driver wins sounds good, until you realize that it isn't you and never will be and there is nothing you can do about it.
So what happens is you get people in control classes following the letter of the rules but not the spirit. In the old £15 27t days some people would buy 4-5 motors, dyno them all and only race the best one. Nowdays you can use a £50 Hobbywing esc in mod racing to no real disadvantage but in stock you need a £200 variable timing esc to stand a chance.
The only cost controlled class in the UK to stand the test of time are the Mardaves, and then only because they are so crude and so simple any attempt to 'improve' them invariably backfires.

[lochness42]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

arnt stock speedos, cells and motors all the same price as the full blown stuff?

speedoes are getting actually more expensive than modified ones and you have to replace them more often to keep fighting for top positions.


In general most newbies can't handle modified at all and stock class was supposed to be for such drivers to race with car that has according speed to their skills and still be able to fight for trophy. Problem is that stock classes (at least in TC's) are getting to speeds of modified just you have to spend much more and that's problem.

I did attend one race at Faversham when I was in UK for The Players The Rematch - it was fun, certainly good oportunity for newbies.

[MRD]

The 10.5 touring guys are running motors so hard they pop for fun and I aint spending £80 every few month just to try and keep up so I'm running modified this year on club days. I can be fast without stressing the motor too much .

[Northy]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

The only cost controlled class in the UK to stand the test of time are the Mardaves, and then only because they are so crude and so simple any attempt to 'improve' them invariably backfires.

I was interested in having a go at Mardaves as I thought it would be cheap, but was told it was all about having THE right tyre for the track. I don't want to get into tyre truing

G

[MRD]

Originally Posted by Northy

I was interested in having a go at Mardaves as I thought it would be cheap, but was told it was all about having THE right tyre for the track. I don't want to get into tyre truing

G

I just bought one, second hand of course ( not paying £85 for a bit of ali plate and some plastic parts ) but I'm gonna run it lazy style. 2 different rear tyres and one set of fronts and not a tyre truer in sight. I won't win but I'm hoping it'll be a giggle

[SlowOne]

All these descriptions of Stock racing I recognise, and enjoyed over the years. There's one missing...

We raced from a grid start (not staggered) and we had to race with others - hitting them was the best guarantee of a bad time! And we enjoyed a good race, often irrespective of who won. These days, all I read is about wanting to win. The most fun I have had in this hobby is a good, fair race - win or lose.

Where'd that go?...

[Chris Doughty]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

All these descriptions of Stock racing I recognise, and enjoyed over the years. There's one missing...

We raced from a grid start (not staggered) and we had to race with others - hitting them was the best guarantee of a bad time! And we enjoyed a good race, often irrespective of who won. These days, all I read is about wanting to win. The most fun I have had in this hobby is a good, fair race - win or lose.

Where'd that go?...

out the same door that money walked in through?

[Northy]

Originally Posted by MRD

I just bought one, second hand of course ( not paying £85 for a bit of ali plate and some plastic parts ) but I'm gonna run it lazy style. 2 different rear tyres and one set of fronts and not a tyre truer in sight. I won't win but I'm hoping it'll be a giggle

To race at Shurburn? Let me know how it goes

Also, I'd have to buy a cheap (and gash) speedo to race, can't use one of the MANY brushed speedos I have lying around! How does that save me money?

G

[fidspeed]

I think i am getting Confused now between stock and modified . I class Stock as 27T brushed not any brushless going

any how mardaves are brilliant fun the "right" tyre will only cost £2.99 a pair i never bother to true them they soon bed in

there is still great fun to be had running the same motor the top guys will still be at the top because they maximize the equipment allocated .remember the tamiya series with handout motors and batteries they were very popular series

Dave (too old too slow)

[fidspeed]

can't use one of the MANY brushed speedos I have lying around! How does that save me money?

sell them to me northy

Dave

[5POINTSTAR]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Slick tracks in off-road, and small club tracks in TC and 12th. Most racing in the US is at small clubs. They have three or four Regional events each year, and one National. We have a National series and Regional series for each class, most of which are on the same tracks. Those tracks are usually the same ones, large, and well laid out. Running Mod os no problem here, but on most US tracks it's a waste of time and costs loads in spares, etc.

So, because Stock is easier to drive on smaller/slicker tracks, and because it keeps running costs down, it is very popular Stateside. Also remember that it is very popular in track classes in mainland Europe, too.

That's another American speciality - running a class for anyone who wants to race. They don't push people into one class at the expense of others, they cater for lots of classes. That way they get big entries, and they have lots of funds. Again, in the UK we are unusual in insisting on single classes at meetings, most others run multiple classes.

The USA has stock classes because it attracts the biggest population of drivers by far. The biggest class at Vegas was 13.5 TC, followed by Amateur 17.5 TC. The smallest class was 12th Modified! Vegas was a fantastic race, and some of the best racing was in the Stock classes. They like their Stock, Stateside...

Great post, well done.
Onroad stock racing is popular here (USA) because most tracks are outdoors and on the small side. Stock onroad is very popular and its an easy way to keep those who race electric Offroad 2WD/4WD Mod/Corr truck and Nitro 10th/8th scale (onroad/offroad) involved in the electric onroad scene.

For example, at our local Electric Onroad track where we only run stock (27T/17.5), some of the racers are Nitro racers (onroad and offroad). The Nitro crowd finds time to race Friday nights because its fun, not expensive and competitive.

Most of the Amateurs (17.5 class) race at the IIC (The Vegas race) are locals that I race with and again, most of them are Offroad and Nitro racers.

Cheap way to race when all is said and done .

[pugboy]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

All these descriptions of Stock racing I recognise, and enjoyed over the years. There's one missing...

We raced from a grid start (not staggered) and we had to race with others - hitting them was the best guarantee of a bad time! And we enjoyed a good race, often irrespective of who won. These days, all I read is about wanting to win. The most fun I have had in this hobby is a good, fair race - win or lose.

Where'd that go?...

Totally agree with this, the best fun to be had is good and clean racing, when you get in a heat with one or two others of very similar level and have some close racing, switching positions with none or very slight contact (elbow in the ribs or finger in the eye works best!)

I take the point about costs not being really any less now and the one about 'selected' 27t in the old days. In indoor buggy racing it made very little difference, but in outdoor it was noticeable.