RC TYRES

[shanks]

Dcm of course I agree a cheaper yellow would be better

Matching compounds would be easy as would copying tread - I wonder what improvement is available in the tread pattern?

I for one have struggled in the past obtainging tyres when I wanted them- assumme some of you have?

[Si Coe]

Availability will always be something of an issue. After all demand varies with time etc and with location. In the winter it was hard to get minipins just before a Bury indoors meet - local stores only keep limited supplies and demand suddenly shot up as people needed tyres for Sunday.
Likewise minispikes virtually disappeared at the start of summer as everyone stocked up for heading outdoors. This has stabilised and supply is good again.
However, unless Schumacher, or individual shops, hold a large stock in inventory for just such a rush its going to happen. And holding large stocks that aren't currently shifting is a bad business model. Therefore the onus on stockpiling falls to you.


Ultimately the appeal of the yellow minispike to me is its ubiqituousness on UK tracks. It offers consistent grip on the tarmac and brick sections at Bury and Southport just as well as the grass and astro. This is a major departure from my ealry experiences with multi-surface tracks at the old Southend track. There, the popular blue cutspikes of the day wroked well on the grass and astro, but were less effective on the tarmac and pretty poor on the sand/dirt section.

What I'd like therefore is a tyre with the same all round ability of the yellow minispike in the dry, but reduced wear rate. I'd happily pay more if it lasted proportiately longer (ie twice the cost for twice the lifespan). And if it could also work in the wet it would be perfect. A one tyre suits all thing.

[MatJohnson]

But if it lasts twice as long and costs twice as much wouldn't it be easier just to buy 2 more sets of yellows?

[Si Coe]

Not really - after all two sets of yellows need two sets of wheels and two sets of inserts, or at least you faffing with acetone to remove the old worn ones from their wheels so you can fit the new fresh ones on (which often means new inserts as some seem to die in the process).

So whilst yes, the overall cost on tyres is the same, ancillary costs are less and the faff is less.

[shanks]

All good stuff so far

What about colour? Would a colour other than black be handy? I am thinking along the lines of drivng and a lighter colour perhaps helping with the orientation of yr car etc ?

[Answer-RC-Pete]

Does colour not affect longevity - I was always lead to believe that a black tyre wont last as long and go off sooner?

[Kopite]

I'd like to see a copy of the compound and spike of a schumacher yellow minispike, but with a flat carcass (like the minipin). I reckon that'd be awesome on astro turf tracks

Costs for racers in terms of tyres has increased, regardless of what people say. The speeds of cars are so much faster than years ago, we're chewing them up way quicker.

[shanks]

see what your saying there

a flat profile theoretically would give less flex and therefore more direct/accurate control....

I am wondering whether its is possible to to use two compounds on a tyre

i.e. minispikes in yellow - with perhaps a set of softer spikes sat bewteeen which would provide the grip in wet conditions.....maybe im being a little optomistic there!!!

Of course it would be possible manufacture wise - just wonder whether it would work in reality

[Nick Goodall]

Colour wise they have to be black, anything else will just look daft imo.

I think as Stan says the power of the cars etc is so high now that tyres are getting worn even quicker then before..... I don't honestly think there's a lot you can do about wear - If a tyre works it will wear out, it's pretty simple unfortunate.

The main thing is going to be Cost!

If you can get a tyre that is almost as good as a Schumacher Yellow Minispike but only costs say £5 with an insert i'm sure tracks would opt for them as a national tyre, and people will obviously be happier even if the tyre isn't QUITE as good as the other option - if everyone is running the same tyres it shouldn't matter if they don't work quite as well.

I think the other option that seems to have gone away these days is 3-piece rims that you can bolt the tyres to, obviously if someone could come up with a better design then the old AE one that could be another big saver on costs and you could just use one or two sets of rims all year.

[Answer-RC-Pete]

Would a flat tyre not be less progressive in brake away?

[Nick Goodall]

Originally Posted by Answer-RC-Pete

Would a flat tyre not be less progressive in brake away?

A flat tyre should work for longer in a way, as rarely do you ever wear out a minispike all the way across, it tends to just be the middle few rows due to the profile of it....

I would think you'll have less side bite with a flat profile tyre but to be honest grip on astro with yellows isn't a problem anyway so i can see how it would work.

[Si Coe]

Colour wise it doesn't have to be black, but that colour is there for a good reason (its carbon powder) and different coloured rubber does work a little differently.

Multi-compound tyres are getting more common in the bicycle world which tend to feature harder wearing rubber in the middle for long lifespans but softer compounds on the edge strips for more bite. However bicycle tyres are of a much more complex construction with many layers of fabric supporting the rubber and this is needed for a multi part tyre to stay in one piece. It could be done, but would cost significantly more.

What about proper pneumatic tyres? Again these would carry increased cost but you'd never need inserts again. Just set the pressure to suit the track......

[Nick Goodall]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

Colour wise it doesn't have to be black, but that colour is there for a good reason (its carbon powder) and different coloured rubber does work a little differently.

Multi-compound tyres are getting more common in the bicycle world which tend to feature harder wearing rubber in the middle for long lifespans but softer compounds on the edge strips for more bite. However bicycle tyres are of a much more complex construction with many layers of fabric supporting the rubber and this is needed for a multi part tyre to stay in one piece. It could be done, but would cost significantly more.

What about proper pneumatic tyres? Again these would carry increased cost but you'd never need inserts again. Just set the pressure to suit the track......

I think anything other then Black is going to look pretty stupid though personally??

I know they use a lot of Muti-compound tyres in on road bike racing but obviously that works as they completely lean the tyre over when cornering and stand it up to accelerate - same as i guess you're saying with Bicycles so this isn't really going to work on 4-wheeled buggys.....

I like the idea of pneumatic tyres, if you could link that in with 3-piece rims that actually sealed the tyre on the wheel it should be possible??

This sort of improvement in technology would surely have to come through 8th first due to the amount of money in that compared to 10th racing these days - Plus the fact they have 40 minute finals etc things like Tyre pressures would be more critical?

[Fabs]

I think a tyre that offers less side bite and more forward traction than the mini spikes would work really well. We end up cutting 4 rows on the front of 4WD tyres and 1 or 2 at the rear to avoid grip roll. Seems to me there's something to look into there, and possibly that would help with wear rate as most of the wear goes from forward traction.

[Si Coe]

Very good point Fabs. Can't think of anyone who doesn't trim the outer spikes on front mini's so why are they made with them?

[shanks]

Yes good point fabs

Being new to racing - at first i was told to trim outer rows to prevent the grip rolling i seemed to be getting (bury metro track)

However since then i havent bothered and dont suffer grip roll at all...

Though it was because i had sorted my set-up out properly and got a little better driving.....

Last week at bury i used a brand new set of minispikes and the only thing close to a grip roll was when i landed off the double with lock on rather than leeting the car land and then turning...

limited experience so not really representative of course...

[Northy]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

Very good point Fabs. Can't think of anyone who doesn't trim the outer spikes on front mini's so why are they made with them?

Because the same mould is used to make greens? And usually you leave all the spikes on them in the wet.....

G

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by Northy

Because the same mould is used to make greens? And usually you leave all the spikes on them in the wet.....

G

Well I for one would rather not see a tyre developped to work in both conditions so it wouldn't bother me if it was not to work in the wet...

[MattW]

When you're looking at a mould, it needs to be able to be used for as many tyres as possible - to pay for itself. So i can't see a situation where a tyre manufacture would be up for using a mould for just one compound - and having one that was nearly the same but with more spikes for other conditions. The other thing with yellows is that they are used indoors as well - where you don't want to trim them.

Multi compounds is interesting - but i have a feeling that there may currently be a rule against it. Could be wrong though. Cost?

Pneumatic - again, intereresting, can see how it might be able to work with 8th, but not sure for 10th there is space for the valve? i'm thinking aloud here, nothing more. Would have to be very confident with the seal as well. Any accident damage to the rim (and let's face it, we all have wheels with bits chewed/missing) and you're in trouble again.

Flatter tyre would would definitely give more drive, if that's what you want i guess. Guess it would suit some cars and tracks, and not so much others. Would also need to alter setup quite a bit i think, specifically around roll centre and camber change to get the best from them. Should all be possible though. TTech did try making a flatter tyre some years ago. Was a bit "marmite" if i recall. Worked very well on some tracks, and really not good on others. They did 3 compounds i think, but can't remember how they compared to "yellow". Schumacher also did a similar pattern - something of a "stubby" type tyre, don't think that was what it was called - may have been.

Someone asked what happened to GRP - well, personally i actually thought they were starting to get somewhere, it actually looked like there was a chance they could break into the market from where i was sitting. However, then they decided they didn't need a UK importer, so i think that would have finished them off. If if that didn't the fire probably would have. Not sure if they are still doing 10th tyres? have a feeling not.

I think a lot of stuff has been tried over the years already, however, the 2.2" minispike has seen them all off. The old 2" was actually flatter as well - in fact fully flat i think, and i guess the 2.2 was better, or else it wouldn't have been replaced.

I'm confident that a "better" could be made, but no one has managed it so far!

[CBRDEAN0]

I'm all for a lightweight split rim design wheel to get rid of the glueing and make the wheels easier to re-use.