Brushless motor/interference?

[dibble34]

That’s the exact set I have, really good for the money in my opinion. I think i was using a acoms 27 receiver for the same reason. I can't guarantee it will sort you mate, but sounds so similar to my problems and what I have said helped me loads. For the sake of moving your receiver and spending less than a tenner it's gotta be worth a go

[littlened]

A further update.

I charged my batteries and tried again. Within about 3-4 metres away the car operated fine, apart from reverse which for some reason didn't work very well at all. Any further than this distance and it started to cut out.

When I took the shell off the car, the plastic had melted on the block connectors I was using, and the motor was far too hot to touch, ontop of that it seems that the solder on the motor has softened because of the heat and the wires have started to work loose, maybe I've used crap solder?

Why would the motor get hot like that, I know you can over work it by using the wrong pinion, but at the minute I'm using a 24t until my 16t arrives, which I thought wouldn't have been so bad. Could it be that it's overheating because it's struggling to get power.

The radio equipment I have comes with a battery block, if I plug this into the receiver to test, would this help me narrow down the problem. I sure it's a power issue.

[littlened]

Originally Posted by dibble34

That’s the exact set I have, really good for the money in my opinion. I think i was using a acoms 27 receiver for the same reason. I can't guarantee it will sort you mate, but sounds so similar to my problems and what I have said helped me loads. For the sake of moving your receiver and spending less than a tenner it's gotta be worth a go

The receiver at the minute is on the top desk towards the rear, but it's right next to the motor, surely that would increase any chances of interference?

[dibble34]

[quote=littlened;253193]A further update.


Why would the motor get hot like that, I know you can over work it by using the wrong pinion, but at the minute I'm using a 24t until my 16t arrives, which I thought wouldn't have been so bad. Could it be that it's overheating because it's struggling to get power.

quote]

Mate, that is very bad and probably part of your problem. I would imagine the draw of power it is using to get going with a 24t pinion would be very high and could cause your raido gear to lose power and glitch. (anyone feel free to correct me if i am wrong)

I would not use again until you get a 16t pinion and hope you have not done any permanent damage.

With regard to reciever positioning, yes it can cause problems by the motor, but for me it kept it away from power wires and the esc. Also putting it on it's side helped.

[littlened]

I've disconnected everything for the time being anyway. I'll wait for the new battery connectors and the pinions to come.

[chb]

Originally Posted by littlened

Just got an Orion Vortex ESC and 4.5t brushless motor. fitted them to the car using the standard receiver and a set of brand new orion 5100 nihm batteries. At first the car cut out all the time, which I figured was down to the tamiya battery connections, I've order some better connections which are more suitable, but in the meantime I've connected the battery to the car using 240v connections, so they shouldn't cause any bottleneck. I'm finding the car runs lovely now, until it gets a short distance away from me, and then it either starts twitching itself or wont respond to controls. I have to walk closer until it responds.

I've tried moving the receiver a little which did improve the distance, but I'm really restricted as to where I put it as there's no room left on the chassis.

I'm running a 27mhz AM setup.

Can anyone shed any light on this problem? could it be interference?

Really Interesting...
I have the exact same problem on *2 cars* and ....
I have in common:
# 27MHz AM
# quite powerful BL motors (4.5t on ZX5, 5.5t on B4)
# Distance from TX is critical to these glitching issues

I don't overgear (I think...17t in ZX5, 21t in B4). Also, I have tried a data logger on the car: the voltage is not always low when glitching occurs. .

Until now, I've been blaming the TX because... I re-cycle some Kyosho perfex mini-Z TX that I thought could be low in TX power(designed for indoor).
I am about to compare my min-Z TX 27MHz AM with my proper(?) 40MHz AM sanwa radio. It will be monday when I get to the lab at work.

I will keep you posted on my findings and the possible solutions I find

[littlened]

Thanks, it'll be interesting to find out what your solution was.

[dibble34]

To be honest i suspect the main problem is 27mhz AM, although not sure why...

[littlened]

Originally Posted by dibble34

To be honest i suspect the main problem is 27mhz AM, although not sure why...

I've ruled that one out because I'm using 40mhz AM now. I suspect the problems I'm having now will be the battery connectors and the pinion. I'll sort them out and re-solder the wiring on the motor, and with a bit of luck it'll fix the issues.

I'll let everyone know how I get on.

[littlened]

I have an update. The 16t pinion arrived this morning, although it looks like I got the wrong pitch because it sounds kind of rough, so I've ordered another one which should be fine. In the meantime I've used this pinion to do some testing.

Here's a link to a video showing some testing.
http://www.sr8.co.uk/rc-car.wmv

What I've found is that if I put the receiver next to the motor at the rear of the car, where it's the only place it will fit, the car cuts out when I'm about 5-6 meters away. If I move the receiver to the front of the car, away from the motor, I can walk downstairs to the other side of the house with very minimal cut out.

During the testing I checked how hot the connectors and battery were. The connectors were fine, no heat at all. The motor was hot, but I could touch it for 3 seconds. The motor temperature is probably normal, if not, it could be down to the extra stress it's having to cope with while the wrong pitch pinion is on.

Because I wasn't at full throttle when any of the cut outs occured, then I'm assuming it's not a power issue, it's interference.

Will buying 2.4ghz radio gear definitely resolve this issue? I don't want to be wasting more money.

I forgot to mention, I've also put the capacitor on the receiver as suggested yesterday, they delivered pretty quick.

[Si Coe]

Originally Posted by chb

Really Interesting...
I have the exact same problem on *2 cars* and ....
I have in common:
# 27MHz AM
# quite powerful BL motors (4.5t on ZX5, 5.5t on B4)
# Distance from TX is critical to these glitching issues

I don't overgear (I think...17t in ZX5, 21t in B4). Also, I have tried a data logger on the car: the voltage is not always low when glitching occurs. .

Until now, I've been blaming the TX because... I re-cycle some Kyosho perfex mini-Z TX that I thought could be low in TX power(designed for indoor).
I am about to compare my min-Z TX 27MHz AM with my proper(?) 40MHz AM sanwa radio. It will be monday when I get to the lab at work.

I will keep you posted on my findings and the possible solutions I find

You are overgeared too.

The same Orion esc in my B4 caused me problems last weekend at the Southport GP. I though it was interference because the radio seemed to keep cutting out, but knew it wasn't cos I was on 2.4gHz. Turned out I was massively overgeared and the power drain was knocking out the radio.
Massively over geared in this case was a 26t pinion, 81 (stock) spur and a 7.5. I've now dropped to 22t and the problem has gone. If I'm running 22 with a 7.5t 21 with a 5.5t must be too high. Go down to 18 or 19 and see what happens.
And a 5.5t is pretty mental in a B4 anyway.......

[JJ The Boat Wizzard]

Hi all

From Reading this it looks like every 1 thats having a problem is massively overgeared and the power drain is knocking out the radio i have seen it hapen loads if your running a 4.5 turn motor you need about a 14-15 or pushing it a 16 (in a 4WD) and your running a what in your lazer ive forgot now was it a 23 :O im supprised it hasent cought fire or the internal solder inside the motor melted and destroyed the motor , u have been lucky wait till you get the correct pinnion before you go anywhere near that if you cant wait while your orderd one just go to a local model shop and buy one there only about 3quid also i seem to remember the lazers using a taymia pitch pinnion however i could be mistaken.

Hope This Helps

John

[littlened]

Originally Posted by JJ The Boat Wizzard

Hi all

From Reading this it looks like every 1 thats having a problem is massively overgeared and the power drain is knocking out the radio i have seen it hapen loads if your running a 4.5 turn motor you need about a 14-15 or pushing it a 16 (in a 4WD) and your running a what in your lazer ive forgot now was it a 23 :O im supprised it hasent cought fire or the internal solder inside the motor melted and destroyed the motor , u have been lucky wait till you get the correct pinnion before you go anywhere near that if you cant wait while your orderd one just go to a local model shop and buy one there only about 3quid also i seem to remember the lazers using a taymia pitch pinnion however i could be mistaken.

Hope This Helps

John

I'm pretty certain my issue isn't to do with drawing too much power from the motor due to incorrect gearing. I've tested the kit without the motor being attached to the car, and I still get cut outs.

It might help others on here though.

[bigred5765]

the first thing i can see in the video is that your Ariel isn't standing up in a tube, bad mistake.and any am radio will perform badly indoors no matter if its 27 or 40,

[littlened]

Originally Posted by bigred5765

the first thing i can see in the video is that your Ariel isn't standing up in a tube, bad mistake.and any am radio will perform badly indoors no matter if its 27 or 40,

I did that on purpose because the arial mounting is near the motor. If AM performs badly indoors then that's more reason to get a new radio set because I'll be racing indoors.

[chb]

Originally Posted by chb

Really Interesting...
I have the exact same problem on *2 cars* and ....
I have in common:
# 27MHz AM
# quite powerful BL motors (4.5t on ZX5, 5.5t on B4)
# Distance from TX is critical to these glitching issues

I don't overgear (I think...17t in ZX5, 21t in B4). Also, I have tried a data logger on the car: the voltage is not always low when glitching occurs. .

Until now, I've been blaming the TX because... I re-cycle some Kyosho perfex mini-Z TX that I thought could be low in TX power(designed for indoor).
I am about to compare my min-Z TX 27MHz AM with my proper(?) 40MHz AM sanwa radio. It will be monday when I get to the lab at work.

I will keep you posted on my findings and the possible solutions I find

Here is an update on the TX comparison:
(1)My 1988 Sanwa Dash 40MHz AM
(2)My 2002 Kyosho Perfex KT-5 (mini-Z) 27MHz AM

(1) is far more powerful TX (+10dB more on the antenna!) than (2)
(1) has much better performance at 30feet (-25dBm vs -55dBm !) than (2)

seems like modern radio regulation/legislation has forced radios to become anaemic

This may explain some of my issues. I need more testing...

Let us know if a 2.4GHz solves your issues, I am very interested

[littlened]

Originally Posted by chb

Here is an update on the TX comparison:
(1)My 1988 Sanwa Dash 40MHz AM
(2)My 2002 Kyosho Perfex KT-5 (mini-Z) 27MHz AM

(1) is far more powerful TX (+10dB more on the antenna!) than (2)
(1) has much better performance at 30feet (-25dBm vs -55dBm !) than (2)

seems like modern radio regulation/legislation has forced radios to become anaemic

This may explain some of my issues. I need more testing...

Let us know if a 2.4GHz solves your issues, I am very interested

My new 2.4ghz radio gear should arrive tomorrow, so I'll let you know.

[littlened]

2.4ghz radio gear fixed the problem.

[chb]

Thanks for your feedback !

Sounds like I am going to get one.

Which one is it ? & how do you find it

[littlened]

Originally Posted by chb

Thanks for your feedback !

Sounds like I am going to get one.

Which one is it ? & how do you find it

This is what I've bought

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFun...n&ItemID=28015

and the best thing, you don't need crystals, it automatically finds an available channel