X6 wing mounts

[Lee]

It may work better (lighter) indoors, there are less bumps etc, i know i always ran my 4gear car with no weight and 3200 lipo at worksop

[Body Paint]

I tend to run mine a little lighter on high grip tight indoor tracks, 1620 is the lightest I have gone, normally run 1650, but always go for 65/35 weight balance

[super__dan]

Try and get the longest screws you can in those new bad boys then

If people are running big Lipo (5000mah) and want to get the same weight balance as Ellis, Phil and the rest of us it's pretty hard to acheive it without getting the total weight over 1700g. If you're running say the TP3200 which is as light as a feather then to get the same balance it can be acheived with much less overall weight, it's then up to you if you want to add weight at front and rear to try same balance but different total weight.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by super__dan

Try and get the longest screws you can in those new bad boys then

If people are running big Lipo (5000mah) and want to get the same weight balance as Ellis, Phil and the rest of us it's pretty hard to acheive it without getting the total weight over 1700g. If you're running say the TP3200 which is as light as a feather then to get the same balance it can be acheived with much less overall weight, it's then up to you if you want to add weight at front and rear to try same balance but different total weight.

I'd like to add, i am also using a big lipo and not the 3200 that i used for the worksop series

[Northy]

I'm gonna add my 2p....

I saw someone replace a wing mount on Sunday and just the act of installing the screw cracked the mount. It seems to me that the hole might be a bit too small on some? That combined with the tough material causes them to crack on install maybe?

G

[millzy]

Originally Posted by Lee

But you are going much faster with xfactory

oh you didnt say that did you

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Northy

I'm gonna add my 2p....

I saw someone replace a wing mount on Sunday and just the act of installing the screw cracked the mount. It seems to me that the hole might be a bit too small on some? That combined with the tough material causes them to crack on install maybe?

G

Maybe G, i am not aware of this, it might be worthwhile running one of the losi silver tapping screws through them first

[super__dan]

Originally Posted by Northy

I'm gonna add my 2p....

I saw someone replace a wing mount on Sunday and just the act of installing the screw cracked the mount. It seems to me that the hole might be a bit too small on some? That combined with the tough material causes them to crack on install maybe?

G

PM sent

[YoungChazz]

Blue, thanks for the intelligent, well-thought-out posts. We always appreciate solid suggestions from the Family, and often incorporate them into our cars/designs.

We may try to run the wing mounts from a material with a lighter load, perhaps 20%, if we can get it. One of the problems is that wing mounts don't take a lot of plastic. The shop buys material in 2,000 lb lots, and there's no way we can pay for 2,000 lbs of expensive plastic when we're only going to use about 75 lbs, so we have to use something they normally stock.

Another concern is that it takes about an hour for two men and a forklift to put any mold in the press, then almost as long to take it out. All shops charge $125 - $200 to "hang" the mold. (Cheap, when you think about it.) So, if we hang the tool to run 1,000 pr of wing mounts, that's 12 - 20 cents per part just to hang the mold.

Making a short run of 50 sets so the Team can test a new material is absurdly expensive. So here's the way it happens: The next time we need to make wing mounts, we'll make the usual production run with the normal material. At the end of that, we'll have them make 50 sets or so from a new material that they normally stock and we think might work. The Boyz will get them for testing in practice and we'll see if they work. If so, then the next production run after that can be the new material.

This is a far more complicated business than I imagined at the start. If I had known what we were getting into, X Factory probably would not exist. Hidden expenses are everywhere, and problems constantly crop up that have nothing to do with designing or racing an R/C car. A very small company as we are must be extra vigilant on costs, and that alone is a full time job.

Unfortunately, I must constantly reject great ideas because of cost concerns or lack of money.

[KinWild]

I really think that a flexible wing mount would be really interesting, because you don´t want that much downforce on straights, so less Wing is better to go faster and not do a wheelie. Also on slower parts of the track you´ll get all the downforce back, so maybe a balance it´s what should be. Just to clarify, a 1:1 scale racing example, Ferrari was forced to get a less flexible front wing because more flexibility on straight make the car faster without losing downforce on corners, wich was against the FIA rules.

[Lee]

I dont think our cars go fast enough to deform wings and mounts at speed.

I remember a test being done on TC bodies and all the aero properties went out of the window above 12mph and the body just filled with air. I think we have very little aero efficiency, it's all about drag with us.

[bigred5765]

Good point made buy G, i do tap mine before i use them,

[niggs98]

Originally Posted by bigred5765

i do tap mine before i use them,

i will leave that one there

[N7ELA]

broke 2 more wing mounts this weekend and then the wing gave way and snapped clean off in the final....


A Big problem i would say with the mounts is the holes are not drilled in the center. It looks like a clear manufacturing error because i have now bought 5 sets in the last 3 weeks and they are all the same.

once you put a screw in them you get a rippled effect on the outside. This is the threads of the screw showing because the wall thinkness is so thin on one side.

Another thing is i think the mounts dont need to be so rigid as ive now seen several people running their x6's with no shims or spacers under the wing causing the wing to flop about.

The car itself is mint and 1740 grams with a 65-35% split works a treat outdoors... Just dissapointing i cant keep me wing on....

[blue_pinky]

Just a thought, are you using the right screws to hold your mounts on? Maybe you're using too big a diameter of screw and over stressing them?

Sounds odd that you can see a ripple on the outside from the screws, and that it keeps happening...

Since the mounts are moulded the mounting holes aren't drilled, and presumably there is only 1 mould tool, so the all the mounts you've have should be near as dammit identical to all the mounts that everyone else uses as well. I'm going to check on my mounts later and see if I have the same ripple effect going on?

[Body Paint]

Originally Posted by N7ELA

broke 2 more wing mounts this weekend and then the wing gave way and snapped clean off in the final....


A Big problem i would say with the mounts is the holes are not drilled in the center. It looks like a clear manufacturing error because i have now bought 5 sets in the last 3 weeks and they are all the same.

once you put a screw in them you get a rippled effect on the outside. This is the threads of the screw showing because the wall thinkness is so thin on one side.

Another thing is i think the mounts dont need to be so rigid as ive now seen several people running their x6's with no shims or spacers under the wing causing the wing to flop about.

The car itself is mint and 1740 grams with a 65-35% split works a treat outdoors... Just dissapointing i cant keep me wing on....

I've never seen a 'ripple effect' on any of my X6 wing mounts, not even the early ones 3 years ago. Unless a defective batch has appeared (which I doubt) in the last few weeks then the only way I can see this happening is if you are using M3 or 5-40 screws in place of the correct 4-40 screws (which are to fat for the holes). If this is the case it could also be contributing to the mounts snapping as it will be putting stress on the plastic before you even race.

If you leave out the spacers and have a floppy wing then there isn't much point having a wing on at all, as it wont be doing very much.

Sometimes the best solution is not always the strongest, we could have made the wing mounts out of something softer so they don't break, but then they wouldn't work so well. If you aren't bothered about having ultimate setup then maybe you could go for a set of Losi wing mounts (which are much softer and more flexible) and something like a J Concepts 7" V-wing which will give similar performance to the stock wing. It's not going to work aswell as the stock parts but it will be less likely to break.

[SHY]

I did break a mount in the first race this year (at the treads).

IMHO they are too stiff, a slightly softer material would have been better.

The wing also takes a massive beating when you roof as there's no flex elsewhere.

[YoungChazz]

N7, as I was reading your last post, with your description of "ripples" I came to the same conclusion as Craig. Please check to be certain you are using 4-40 fasteners and that they are the correct length. The bottom and top screws are different. Remember that, when measuring the length of a cap head screw, you do not include the cap.

Please believe me when I say you are the only person we know of reporting this problem. I don't mean there isn't the odd breakage here and there -- everybody has that -- but you are the only person we know who breaks them in the quantity you do. Something on your car is wrong, something has been overlooked.

I make this sort of mistake constantly -- we all do from time to time -- so please take a second careful look.

[N7ELA]

Originally Posted by YoungChazz

N7, as I was reading your last post, with your description of "ripples" I came to the same conclusion as Craig. Please check to be certain you are using 4-40 fasteners and that they are the correct length. The bottom and top screws are different. Remember that, when measuring the length of a cap head screw, you do not include the cap.

Please believe me when I say you are the only person we know of reporting this problem. I don't mean there isn't the odd breakage here and there -- everybody has that -- but you are the only person we know who breaks them in the quantity you do. Something on your car is wrong, something has been overlooked.

I make this sort of mistake constantly -- we all do from time to time -- so please take a second careful look.

I am using the correct 4-40 screws which are the correct lengh. First set of mounts i broke where the screws go in. The second ones broke when the nipple snapped so i cut them off and drilled them so i could hold the wing on with screws. This worked fine for the last 2 rounds and the car was great but i rolled it once in the final and the wing split at one side and was hanging off...

Can anybody tell me if they have wing mounts that have the holes in the center. All mine are off center and im convinced this is the problem.

[nickhudson]

Originally Posted by YoungChazz

N7, as I was reading your last post, with your description of "ripples" I came to the same conclusion as Craig. Please check to be certain you are using 4-40 fasteners and that they are the correct length. The bottom and top screws are different. Remember that, when measuring the length of a cap head screw, you do not include the cap.

Please believe me when I say you are the only person we know of reporting this problem. I don't mean there isn't the odd breakage here and there -- everybody has that -- but you are the only person we know who breaks them in the quantity you do. Something on your car is wrong, something has been overlooked.

I make this sort of mistake constantly -- we all do from time to time -- so please take a second careful look.

sorry to say that i have broken quite a few sets of wing mounts too - stripping the (correctly sized) screws out of the mounts. in my humble opinion, there is not enough material around the mounting screw holes and the little diagonal brace between the two open ends is not sufficiently strong enough to stop the ends of the wing mounts twisting when tightening the mounting screws. looking at the HB D4 mounts that were fitted following a lot of frustration with the std mounts, there is far more material in this critical area. funnily enough i've had no problems with them at all..... ....they also hold the wing square which every std x6 mount i've ever bought has failed to do.

just my 2p's worth....