F1 appeal rules in Brawn's favour

[Lee]

renault would still be top if it wasn't for alonso leaving the other year, he alone cost them nearly a years development

[stegger]

Patrick, it's renault not renult

[swayze08]

dammm my deslexic spelling lol it will curse me to the death ill just call them the french team as i can spell that

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by Fabs

That is not technically true. They knew updates were allowed, but those were only to help teams improve on the reliability. Renault didn't have any issues on this side and so didn't need an update. The problem was, that "some" teams used the updates to gain power, and so renault (and Honda) who had an engine on par with everyone else at the time of the so called engine freeze, found themselves with underpowered units once those other teams finished updating their powerplant. This is why Renault and Honda were allowed to update their engines for this year.

Sorry Fabs, I agree with you on this, what I meant was most teams except them saw the loophole of "make it more reliable, and oops it happens to be faster too", whereas they missed it!

And actually yeah rules were published back in 2006, but there's a big difference between asking "Charlie, can we make our rear crash structure a diffuser", and "Charlie, optimizing the strength/packaging of our rear crash structure has led to a different shape, is this shape ok?".

I just have no sympathy with Renault on this stuff since spygate!

[bodgit]

Originally Posted by BagofSkill

The thing that isn't being covered by mainstream media is the fact that the FIA told Renault at least, in 2007 and 2008 that they couldn't use the loophole. Renault has sent several questions to Charlie Whitting some worded, some including technical drawings about options to make a double deck diffuser and each time they were told 'No'.
Then he flipped and allowed it this year. The incriminating thing to me is that as the furore grew Charlie stopped talking to Renault about the matter- actually stopped answering emails and ignoored the team.

And the ruling was never in doubt by the way because once Max Moosley got up and told the papers in Melbourne it was ok, the die was set. And I know first hand the Melbourne stewards were instructed by the FIA to pass the diffuser cars. The appeal was a formality.

Does this mean the stewards were misleading the world like Hamilton. Makes his hearing a mockery

[Fabs]

I know nothing me. I haven't seen the molds yesterday at all

[swayze08]

im starting to think fabs works for that french team what happend to patritism dont chear them boo them go button

[Lee]

Fabs isn't english, he is a european cocktail

[Fabs]

I wish I was, but sadly not. I just happen to have had a tour yesterday.

And seen as I AM French despite whatever the burger van guy at the NEO said, then patriotism would say I should support Renault (and Ferrari as well and Bourdais / Toro Rosso too...)...

[qatmix]

Appar its the redbull and the Ferrari that have the chassis layouts that are not suited to the new diffuser type.

[Lee]

red bull are pretty quick anyway

[swayze08]

i know what u mean there fabs other wise i would have to follow lewis and maclrean but i dont and before it gets ugly no i dont have any probs with the french but the one queston u didnt anser is how the f**k do u know so mutch about ren oh the french team do they put it all on a website cus the bbc f1 site dosent have info like this i could use this info and make a killing at the bookies

[swayze08]

torro rosso have gone down hill now gear hard bergur has left do u think that is coinsidence lol

[Lee]

Originally Posted by swayze08

i could use this info and make a killing at the bookies

When you put your money on would you say "nobody puts renault in the corner"??

[BagofSkill]

Originally Posted by swayze08

wow its like oople has spys in the f1 world how do u all have so mutch info on renult

Haha, there are definately at least one F1 insider contributing to this thread!

When you say Renault (and Honda missed the engine loophole- yes they did really. Sadly for them they were too honest for thier own good and when the FIA said 'give us your engine specs at the end of the Brazil race and they'll be frozen for 4 years unless there are reliability issues', Renault and Honda gave in their engines. Merceedes, Ferrari and BMW all took the latest, but so far unreliable developments, put them in the frozen engine handed that up and then spent 4 months and £££ to make them reliable again but keeping the extra power.

What it proves at the end of the day is that the FIA aren't serious about anything they say in the sport, cutting costs, freezing engines, slowing the cars or increasing overtaking.

And it suits the FIA that Brawn are fast because now they can say that 'look, we made it cheap and privateer teams are beating the big boys'. But no-one is aknowledging that the Brawn was designed by Honda with a massive budget, massive staff, two wind tunnels and a year to design the car. Brawn aren't a privateer. They had all the staff and budget of the full Honda Factory team until two weeks ago. Now the moneys gone and they've lost 275 staff, we can wait and see if/how long they get gobbled up by the people with resources. But they should have the first half of the championship sown up, that that is often enough to coast to the finish.

Th eother 7 teams will have to design and test new floors, new upper bodies (side pod/engine cover), exhausts pipes, ancillary bits and rear wings before they can hope to catch Brawn, and for some teams like Red Bull, they'll also need a different gearbox. £££££££££!!!

Renault will a have one set of the first generation bits this weekend for Fernando, maybe a second set for Nelson if they can finish them in time.
I think they're the first. The other teams are talking about R4 or R5 before they can have thier first generation double deck diffusers.

From what I've heard.........

[Fabs]

I don't think Toro Rosso have gone downhill, it's just that they've not had much running with the car and they can't use most of the data from red bull as they've got a totally different engine/gearbox. With a bit of time they'll get it running as quick as the red bull.

[swayze08]

there is a bookies bang across road want me to go find out the odds for alonso this week end or the bigger risk him winning the season

[DaveG28]

Don't make that bet too quick, remember it has been in Renault/Ferrari's interest to play up the speed difference of the diffuser change up to now, might not really be seconds a lap...

[swayze08]

true i made one as hope at the very start of season i put a £5 on s.vettal to win the the season as his odds were 500/1 well u never know

[Lee]

i think that £5 would have been better spent on a 4-4 draw in last nights game