Lazer zxr

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by alcyon

Yes i know myrcstation, its about 25km from where i live. however i never imagined you would want to use a one way on the rear. anyway, its best we carefully think this out first and work out the assembly on CAD rather than buying a pulley but cant use it. give me some time to re draw everyhting in 3D for the original ZX layshaft assembly and reconfirm all the important points, lets take this slow and steady. By the way since i have given half of my parts to the machinist, i need your help to measure your ZX assembly. i will make a drawing, post it here and you fill the blanks for me. Will be ready in few days time. what you said about cutting the original rear hub at the plate is interesting, but that would kind of place the B4 inner plate too far out, unless you can cut more, i can give you the dimension to cut tommorow. Basically we want the external face of the inner b4 plate to sit exactly where the rear hub flat flange was.
However we still need to "bond" the rear hub the new layshaft somehow,and we need to find more of the rear hub just in case we screw up cutting the existing one. will talk to you all soon. gotta sleep now, another long day at work tommorow. Goodnight everyone.

While your asleep here is why I was thinking of the one way on the rear. As you are not allowed to reverse during events it wont do any harm havng the one way on the opposte side as it means you cant reverse as the one way will work one way so on the rear belt so will mean 100 percent drive to the rear and front wheels in forwards only. No drive in reverse. I cant cut it some more without removing the one way as I have already have taken a significant chunk out already so will post a picture next week sometime to show you what I mean with a normal layshaft. The oneway fits perfectly aligned against the plastic circle section on the gearbox casing so is sitting inside that section in line with the plastic so think this should be adeqauet for the job, as once the metal plate is fitted there will be enough space

If we can use this we dont need to bond it to the layshaft at all, so hope this now makes sense to you.

[Welshy40]

Here is the cut one wy fitted, so with an original normal one way it should fit perfectly

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

Here is the cut one wy fitted, so with an original normal one way it should fit perfectly

if you use a one way 14T pulley in a reverse rotation way will give you positive front drive, problem is your car will not slowdown fast enough. you will be depending solely on the friction between the tires and the surface its on. there will be absolutely no brakes at all even when you let of throttle.
however your idea about cutting the exsiting Lazer front hub one way has its merits. however the problem will be the same, no brakes and reverse. i much prefer if you could use the ZX-R rear hub which is locked in position by set screw, that will work. i saw your CAD drawing, and i need to check properly where the parts sit first before i say anything about it.
also could you take a sharp pic from the side of the cut one way? i cant see if you still need the small bearing in it.

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by alcyon

if you use a one way 14T pulley in a reverse rotation way will give you positive front drive, problem is your car will not slowdown fast enough. you will be depending solely on the friction between the tires and the surface its on. there will be absolutely no brakes at all even when you let of throttle.
however your idea about cutting the exsiting Lazer front hub one way has its merits. however the problem will be the same, no brakes and reverse. i much prefer if you could use the ZX-R rear hub which is locked in position by set screw, that will work. i saw your CAD drawing, and i need to check properly where the parts sit first before i say anything about it.
also could you take a sharp pic from the side of the cut one way? i cant see if you still need the small bearing in it.

The large bearing that the one way attaches o the gearbox is still there and the hub still has the oneway bearing molded in. I will try to cut that away as well but doesnt leave much room to hold the big bearing.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

The large bearing that the one way attaches o the gearbox is still there and the hub still has the oneway bearing molded in. I will try to cut that away as well but doesnt leave much room to hold the big bearing.

no dont cut that away. you need to hold to big bearing in. just take a pic from the side and show me. anyway i still feel the one way wont work becuase the car wont have any brakes.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by isobarik

Alcyon

Im at work so if you got the time the link is on here otherwise i will post it when i get home.

http://www.rc-race-and-drift-japan.c...oducts_id=2639

They look like these exactly but of course with 14 instead of 13 tooth

mvh Isobarik

found this they have em

http://www.myrcstation.com/webshaper....asp?catID=110

i checked both, cant use them, one has a hub thats too long, and the belt width isnt wide enough, the other is a one way, how can you use a one way? no brakes at all.

[Welshy40]

I dont use brakes at all so kindof doesnt matter for me but do see your point and have a resolution.

That is the hyperclutch part thats basically a hub without the plate so will use that on mine, but will need a flat bit on the layshaft for the allen key to screw to. As this item is non existant any more the other item worth buying is the LA56 and cutting that down as that has an allen key section so you can bolt it to the layshaft so means that you will be able to brake and will work according to plan.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

I dont use brakes at all so kindof doesnt matter for me but do see your point and have a resolution.

That is the hyperclutch part thats basically a hub without the plate so will use that on mine, but will need a flat bit on the layshaft for the allen key to screw to. As this item is non existant any more the other item worth buying is the LA56 and cutting that down as that has an allen key section so you can bolt it to the layshaft so means that you will be able to brake and will work according to plan.

I still dont agree with you about the brakes. i understand you're not the type to apply brakes, i did drive like that 3 years ago with my touring cars when brushless had no boost or turbo. however you dont get what i am trying to say. even though you dont use brakes in the finger sense, but as soon as you let of the gas, your motor has some drag in it that will cause your spur gear to slow down, thus transferring this drag to your rear wheels,--if you use a front one way. That means your car will still slow down reasonably fast. If you were to use a reverse one way on the rear and a one way on the front, what will happen is when you let off the gas, the motors inherent drag will stop the spur gear from moving, becuase the rear pulley is freewheeling and has no friction against the shaft. so what will happen is your car will keep rolling, and it will keep rolling very very fast ! so fast that even when you turn the steering full lock your car will understeer terrbily. the reason you have a lot of turn in with the front one way is becuase the motors off throttle drag will slow down the rear pulley and the rear diff, rear wheel brakes if you will.

Ok since i am done explaining why the one way wont work, okay we can get to use LA-56.fact is i have an LA-56 with me right now. in order to use the b4 plate properly you need to cut off the LA-56 by 4.7mm. but you will also cut off the existing M3 tap hole for the setscrew, that means you have to re drill and re tap..maybe you and i could do that, but what about the rest of the Lazer freaks? i also found out something odd about the ZX-R layshaft and the ZX.
with the ZX, there is a 1mm gap between pulleys. with the ZX-R there is none. look at these 2 drawings.

pic 1. original ZX shaft assembly. note the important dimensions to place the pulley correctly so that it will line up with the diffs.
pic 2. My new ZX-B4 shaft asembly. notice i revised a few dimensions which was out by 0.5mm. i need to send you the revised drawing welshy.

ok i know you requested the layshaft so that you can use LA-56..i will do that for you, but also allow me to go ahead with the Misumi pulley design, and show the proposal to everyone to have a look.

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by alcyon

I still dont agree with you about the brakes. i understand you're not the type to apply brakes, i did drive like that 3 years ago with my touring cars when brushless had no boost or turbo. however you dont get what i am trying to say. even though you dont use brakes in the finger sense, but as soon as you let of the gas, your motor has some drag in it that will cause your spur gear to slow down, thus transferring this drag to your rear wheels,--if you use a front one way. That means your car will still slow down reasonably fast. If you were to use a reverse one way on the rear and a one way on the front, what will happen is when you let off the gas, the motors inherent drag will stop the spur gear from moving, becuase the rear pulley is freewheeling and has no friction against the shaft. so what will happen is your car will keep rolling, and it will keep rolling very very fast ! so fast that even when you turn the steering full lock your car will understeer terrbily. the reason you have a lot of turn in with the front one way is becuase the motors off throttle drag will slow down the rear pulley and the rear diff, rear wheel brakes if you will.

Ok since i am done explaining why the one way wont work, okay we can get to use LA-56.fact is i have an LA-56 with me right now. in order to use the b4 plate properly you need to cut off the LA-56 by 4.7mm. but you will also cut off the existing M3 tap hole for the setscrew, that means you have to re drill and re tap..maybe you and i could do that, but what about the rest of the Lazer freaks? i also found out something odd about the ZX-R layshaft and the ZX.
with the ZX, there is a 1mm gap between pulleys. with the ZX-R there is none. look at these 2 drawings.

pic 1. original ZX shaft assembly. note the important dimensions to place the pulley correctly so that it will line up with the diffs.
pic 2. My new ZX-B4 shaft asembly. notice i revised a few dimensions which was out by 0.5mm. i need to send you the revised drawing welshy.

ok i know you requested the layshaft so that you can use LA-56..i will do that for you, but also allow me to go ahead with the Misumi pulley design, and show the proposal to everyone to have a look.

The zxr pulley has no gap as there is no thrust washer in between the pulleys, more of a solid alloy washer so is the reason why there is a difference between the ZX and R

Yes I notoced the LA56 will cut away the allen screw and redrilling is a pain for most so kindof see where your coming from.

In answer to your first question, if the drive train is really free and the belts are really loose then when you back off the power for a corner you get oversteer (your explanation is pretty much on the ball) but I like more steering so have 7.5 degrees on the front and means I dont really need to power into the corner as much as when you leave the apex and the car is really free so power or not its quick. My set up isnt there yet but when finished I aim to drive flat out down the straight and into the corner tight with no grip roll or issues, then it will be set up right (as I drove it in the 90's), but as with everything work is still needed to get this right.

Im having fun, and glad your on board as your layshaft design is going to take this car to a new level.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

The zxr pulley has no gap as there is no thrust washer in between the pulleys, more of a solid alloy washer so is the reason why there is a difference between the ZX and R

Yes I notoced the LA56 will cut away the allen screw and redrilling is a pain for most so kindof see where your coming from.

In answer to your first question, if the drive train is really free and the belts are really loose then when you back off the power for a corner you get oversteer (your explanation is pretty much on the ball) but I like more steering so have 7.5 degrees on the front and means I dont really need to power into the corner as much as when you leave the apex and the car is really free so power or not its quick. My set up isnt there yet but when finished I aim to drive flat out down the straight and into the corner tight with no grip roll or issues, then it will be set up right (as I drove it in the 90's), but as with everything work is still needed to get this right.

Im having fun, and glad your on board as your layshaft design is going to take this car to a new level.

yes lets take this car to a new level- the supersonic level . by the way thats a 80's euro dance tune by italian antonella.http://www.discogs.com/Antonella-Sup...release/853928

kidding aside. tonight i will work out the alternative design with a seperate pulley, and i will also work on the LA-56 alternative within this week. is LA-56 easy to get these days?
i just got an idea, the LA-56 hub dia is 25mm, the B4 is 31mm. Associated now has the high torque yellow slipper pads that cover more surface area, compared to the white slipper pad, the yellow goes almost to the hub center. So my point is, why not use LA-56 unmodified, then on the outer end use the B4 plate? yes there is a difference in diameter but with the yellow slipper pad with larger surface area, this might not be an issue. what do you guys think? That means no hacking involved, just plug and play !

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by alcyon

yes lets take this car to a new level- the supersonic level . by the way thats a 80's euro dance tune by italian antonella.http://www.discogs.com/Antonella-Sup...release/853928

kidding aside. tonight i will work out the alternative design with a seperate pulley, and i will also work on the LA-56 alternative within this week. is LA-56 easy to get these days?
i just got an idea, the LA-56 hub dia is 25mm, the B4 is 31mm. Associated now has the high torque yellow slipper pads that cover more surface area, compared to the white slipper pad, the yellow goes almost to the hub center. So my point is, why not use LA-56 unmodified, then on the outer end use the B4 plate? yes there is a difference in diameter but with the yellow slipper pad with larger surface area, this might not be an issue. what do you guys think? That means no hacking involved, just plug and play !

I found that the LA56 kept slipping no matter how hard you tightened the slipper with LA56 and those pads with my spur gear. I ended up using the ZX slipper system with the reverse one way hub and the two big silver metal washer plates from the ZX to hold the spur and high torque pads in place. may work correctly though if the shaft is built correctly so worth a try to start with and if no success we can then work on the layshaft attachment.

[adam lancia]

Also keep in mind that Associated is coming out with the VTS slipper assembly (http://www.teamassociated.com/parts/details/91175/), might be something to look into in order to account for the reduced slipper area on the inside of the spur if using la56.

[Welshy40]

If we design the layshaft correctly and it works with la56 then great but im doubting it will due to past experiences, however id love to prove myself wrong.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

If we design the layshaft correctly and it works with la56 then great but im doubting it will due to past experiences, however id love to prove myself wrong.

anyway, lets just wait until my machinist and yours says if they could do the first proposal. Looks like we got no choice but to take it slow. also about the rear pulley, i only see making a new pulley ourselves the only way out of the problem, because the pulley must be 9.5mm width or less, and the misumi pulley is 11mm width.

Also since one of my B4 plate is with the machinist, tehre is a buggy race coming on the next sunday 25th. can someone borrow 1 plate to me to race my optima mid cause my order with infernosonly wont come on time.
i also need to buy a ZX gear cover. seems TBG is not selling anything now. Anyone else makes one? For the blue steering parts, do i need to put a bushing or a bearing in them? Is tehre any close up pics of the assembly?

i have to mention also if i dont race this coming buggy race, it might be the last one the local shops will organise. EP offroad died in 1995 over here and just made agreat comeback end of last year, but participation is dwindling again. If i dont lend my support it could be game over for buggy racing here, thats what my hobby shop guy told me.

[adam lancia]

I'd help with whatever I could but all of my stuff is in storage in Germany and I'm in Spain... I hope you get the parts you need.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by adam lancia

I'd help with whatever I could but all of my stuff is in storage in Germany and I'm in Spain... I hope you get the parts you need.

thanks for your offer. I am trying to get the race postponed to a later date with a few other racers, lets see how it goes.

[Welshy40]

Anyone got spare alloy pivot blocks? Mine are bent.

[bigfella]

hi everyone

has anybody got an la31 the bracket that fits on the rear gearbox

cheers

[alcyon]

I was looking through my old photo albums and found a few pics of my BITD and my friends Lazer ZX. So i am sharing these pics with you guys. The earliest pictures are from 1991, showing the blue Lazer, and the red lazer pics are from 1994 to 2001.

[kek23k]

Sweet, always good to see old pics from back in the day

I think I might have one of my Lazer somewhere, will have a dig around