Can of worms discussion 1/10th 4WD

[Kelk]

OK so I know thisn is going to be a right little can of worms but I have a "What are the pros and cons of which car?" for 1/10th $WD

I feel like getting a 4WD and the current naieve short list is:

Schumacher CAT K1
Kyosho Lazer
Assocaited B44.2 (of some iteration)
X-ray something or other

I race a TLR 22 and 22SCT at SHRCCC on astro and on the odd occasion go to TORCH / A. N. Other track/s

I'm looking for the pros and cons of each - build, quality, reliability, robustness, availability of parts, upgrades , potentiasl end of production run for a new car , absolutely anything

I used to race a Pro-cat many moons ago so there is a hankering towards the K1 but that is purely nostalgia talking

Thanks

[Col]

[Kelk]

LOL

I know I know and I'm not trolling either

[Chrislong]

2wd have 2 driven wheels at one end or t'other, usually t'other, but never on opposite corners or same side. 4wd have 1 wheel on 4 corners all driven :P. Beyond that is personal preference.

[jimmy]

I've only built the K1 and XB4 - both awesome builds. I love the K1 bling factor - it's just sexy as all hell. Not driven it yet. Raced the XB4 twice and love it.

Not touched either of the other cars so I can't honestly comment.

[Vrg1]

I would say xb4 as glen has one and will be able to give advise on setup

[AfroP]

seen the K1 running at my club quite a bit and hear it drawing a lot of comparison to the tamiya 5something and the feedback is generally good. I myself have not built or run one but I have built an SX3 and have to say the build was smooth and easy, and am absolute pleasure. everything fit together well and the manual was clear and easy to understand.

Cost wise, your looking at around £300 and many K1 drivers will tell you that there are essential upgrades out the box depending on the track. There are also many many fine upgrade options available for the car, strangely though they are all still purple and gold which moves away from the original sleek black stealthy look behind the K1's original design and parts which to me is a bad thing

The XB4 is a fairly new entry to the 4wd market as it is Team Xrays first foray into the 1/10th scale off-road arena, from what I have seen its a decent car with a superb build and great manual. There are few option parts available at the minute as you get nearly everything in the box, roll bars, shock oils and diff oils are all included in the box and so far Xray has shown some superb customer care by releasing a free upgrade kit to owners to strengthen some parts that were deemed as weak by racers.
The flex system on the chassis of the XB4 allows you to adjust for different track conditions without the need for additional parts or chassis by simply changing the positions of some screws. At around £320 for a kit you are looking at an expensive buy but as near as I can tell there really isnt much else you'll need to buy for this car apart from maybe some springs and tires.
compared to say a Durango 410v3, @ £280. out the box has plastic wheel hexes, plastic shock collars and no diff or shock oil included, those few options there will almost make up the extra cost of the XB4


I cant really comment on the others as I have little to no exposure to them and haven't looked at the models myself but as is always the case a massive "pro" for any car you may purchase will be how well its supported at your club in order to get advise, help and tips

[mtbd500]

B44.1 great fun car, good accelleration, well balanced, rod ends need changing out the box as brittle, i heard this and mine broke first crash, marmite kit shell, a lot of work to get the diffs out, naff imperial hardware. spares are farly expensive. A good car unless you owned a bj4 we, it is a bj4 that has sold it's soul and now works for the man. but the addition of big bores improved the car a lot for me

Team durango dex410 radical design, amazingly well engineered, the sort of car you can just hold in your hand and examine, looks and goes even better with the cab forward bulldog shell, crazy fast accelleration, ton's of steering, suits agressive driver, can remove diffs and spur in minutes, parts are very cheap and high quality from uk distributor with Excellent uk customer service

Schumachers.. i have not driven one but seem to me the cars before the k1 were over engineered and belt drive seems out of date in off road.

Xray xb4, xray have not made a bad car yet, they take the piss with the price of spares, £11.99 for a belt!, £19.00 for a single dogbone ( no axle)

to sum up,, imo durango has highest quality, cheapest parts and uk customer service and the kit is £280!

My top manufacturers in rc..
Durango for kits and parts
Hobbywing for electrics
Gens ace or turnigy for lipos
Futaba for radio gear
Hudy for tools

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by mtbd500

B44.1 great fun car, good accelleration, well balanced, rod ends need changing out the box as brittle, i heard this and mine broke first crash, marmite kit shell, a lot of work to get the diffs out, naff imperial hardware. spares are farly expensive. A good car unless you owned a bj4 we, it is a bj4 that has sold it's soul and now works for the man. but the addition of big bores improved the car a lot for me

Team durango dex410 radical design, amazingly well engineered, the sort of car you can just hold in your hand and examine, looks and goes even better with the cab forward bulldog shell, crazy fast accelleration, ton's of steering, suits agressive driver, can remove diffs and spur in minutes, parts are very cheap and high quality from uk distributor with Excellent uk customer service

Schumachers.. i have not driven one but seem to me the cars before the k1 were over engineered and belt drive seems out of date in off road.

Xray xb4, xray have not made a bad car yet, they take the piss with the price of spares, £11.99 for a belt!, £19.00 for a single dogbone ( no axle)

to sum up,, imo durango has highest quality, cheapest parts and uk customer service and the kit is £280!

My top manufacturers in rc..
Durango for kits and parts
Hobbywing for electrics
Gens ace or turnigy for lipos
Futaba for radio gear
Hudy for tools

Belt on an xb4.......there shaft drive!!

[mark christopher]

Out of your list I'd say k1.
Not sure why folk are saying Durango when its not on your .list. Associated is easy to drive but not metric. Xray IMO not fully sorted yet, though shows potential.

[jo90]

you missed Durango off your list, one of the best cars out there

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by jo90

you missed Durango off your list, one of the best cars out there

Because he has made a short list?

[Kelk]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

Because he has made a short list?

Actually to be fair no I haven't made a short lisdt as yet - these were the ones I was aware of bascially knowing there would be otehrs out there.

Gotta say guys, after the inital facepalm moment (which I did find funny), this is useful info - please keep it coming

[hazeandfizz]

Lazer FS2 SP is a great car, I moved from SX3 to Lazer over the winter. My main reason for doing this was to get a very reliable 4WD for Torch Winter Series. For someone of my ability there is no clear performane difference between the 2 models, but I have found the shaft drive platform on the Lazer to require zero maintenance so far. This has allowed me to run both classes on the same day.

Regards,
James.

[mark christopher]

I found the Durango the worst out of b44.1 and schumacher on fit, needed more work to get it nice where other two just bolted together, I have the original full fat 410 though so some thing may have changed.
K1 was best build yet, just building another now....

[Rayzerp]

Originally Posted by mtbd500

B44.1 great fun car, good accelleration, well balanced, rod ends need changing out the box as brittle, i heard this and mine broke first crash, marmite kit shell, a lot of work to get the diffs out, naff imperial hardware. spares are farly expensive. A good car unless you owned a bj4 we, it is a bj4 that has sold it's soul and now works for the man. but the addition of big bores improved the car a lot for me

I have heard plenty of bad stories about Durango rod ends, even their top factory driver is using Yokomo parts, diffs in fairness are much more work to remove than newer designed cars, imperial is no big deal, wouldnt have said the spares were expensive and certainly on a par with Durango, and as for selling its soul............

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Kelk

OK so I know thisn is going to be a right little can of worms but I have a "What are the pros and cons of which car?" for 1/10th $WD

I feel like getting a 4WD and the current naieve short list is:

Schumacher CAT K1
Kyosho Lazer
Assocaited B44.2 (of some iteration)
X-ray something or other

I race a TLR 22 and 22SCT at SHRCCC on astro and on the odd occasion go to TORCH / A. N. Other track/s

I'm looking for the pros and cons of each - build, quality, reliability, robustness, availability of parts, upgrades , potentiasl end of production run for a new car , absolutely anything

I used to race a Pro-cat many moons ago so there is a hankering towards the K1 but that is purely nostalgia talking

Thanks

Originally Posted by Kelk

Actually to be fair no I haven't made a short lisdt as yet - these were the ones I was aware of bascially knowing there would be otehrs out there.

Gotta say guys, after the inital facepalm moment (which I did find funny), this is useful info - please keep it coming

Oh I was just going on your first post....

[RogerM]

I that region you will get the most assistance in terms of build and setup advice from the Kyosho cars.

Fit and finish still 2nd to none, almost bullet proof transmission (when built correctly), super easy to setup and drives smoother than silk.

K1 does look a good car but open belt transmissions always mean frequent prep work is required where as a properlt built Lazer can go many months between diff regreases etc. (honestly can't remember last time I did mine, maybe August?)

[AfroP]

Originally Posted by mtbd500

to sum up,, imo durango has highest quality, cheapest parts and uk customer service and the kit is £280!

sorry but am going to have to disagree with you there...
You only need to look in the Durango thread on here to see many peoples frustration with Durango support, many stories of emails with no response at all.
But there are some that have said they have had a good experience when calling.

Cheapest?! errm no I dont think so, on the 210 alone the alloy rear hubs from durango are £40 the same part(in black) from Exotek is only £25

The 410v3 may be £280 but compared to the other cars on the OP's list has many things missing, as I mentioned in my earlier post, plastic hexes,plastic shock collars and plastic shock mounting posts. add those upgraded parts into the mix and your cheap £280 kit quickly becomes a fair bit more expensive.

The 410 is also one of the tightest cars to get your kit in and in some cases your lipo's may be too tall and will need replaced otherwise the battery brace will rub against the drive shaft and cause rubbing and damage.


The 410 is a great car though once you get it going and get to grips with it and is undeniably a winner at the highest level but with new models out from Xray, and schumacher and a new version of the B44, it cant be long before a 410v4 comes out


Very rarely hear a bad word about the Kyosho car, the only things that I personally dont like is that the parts are fairly expensive and £380 for a mostly plastic kit is a lot of money.

[Maxbashing]

I guess you are going to struggle to find anyone who has bought, built, raced and tuned all of the current breed of 4wd cars so I guess you will never get a fair comparison.

All I can say is that I own a 410v3 and love it. To date I have had no issues with the rod ends on this or my 210 and I crash a lot. It's simple to make changes to and parts support is great. I don't particularly like having to take the spur in and out every time I want to change batteries but I have now found I can do this as quick as people who own other cars.

Every Schumacher car I have ever built has been a dream and I would put money on the K1 being the same. As you can order directly from Schumacher their part support is second to none. I am not a fan of their ball diffs but that might just be me.

I have found that Kyosho stuff is good but I have struggled getting parts for my inferno VE (when I say struggle what I mean is there isn't the range of vendors that there are for most other manufacturers).

IMHO the Xray XB4 is the best looking car on the market. Now, not everyone is lead by how good a car looks but I think they look awesome. While there seem to have been some teething issues I feel that the way they have handled these has been wonderful. I have not driven or even held a XB4 but I have been impressed by the build quality of every other Xray car I have come across. I am currently tempted to swap the 410 for one of these but then I'm like a magpie when it comes to blingy things