new amb system

[Coastal]

Originally Posted by skiv

Seems crazy to have not built backwards compatibility.

Why not cancel the Harry, bring out the Purcy that works on both systems, with limited functionality on the old systems and full functionality on the new system.

A new driver to the sport knows they are buying something that works everywhere whichever level of system they are at.

As i read the first sales paperwork from the BBK website when the Harry came out, it appeared the Harry would have this extra digit for personal id with the same number but it seems this was a whole new product rather than an addition to the current. Feeling a little mislead about that.

Didn't need to upgrade my old PT's they worked, thought i was getting a new future proof product that would last as long as the previous one, with the ability to have "clones" down the road...

And to others who have posted - PLEASE READ THE FACTS the new system is backward compatible and will work with all amb digital transponders, from the red handouts, 3 lug personal & Harry Transponders also the new Pure personal transponders.
The new pure personal transponders will not work with older decoders.

Why do so many people post on hearsay?

There are at least two posts on here were the posters have actually contacted the UK importer as I have and have asked the questions and got answers and have posted the response.

Remember we all used AMB20 analogue transponders, before that pen & paper, push button electronic timers, basic lap counting software on computers, still pressing numbers manually. Shall we go back to those systems?
The world evolves as does timing equipment

[Si Coe]

If the new PT won't work with the old decoders its not backwards compatible. Thats kinda what it means!
Yes you can use old AMB/Mylaps PT's with the new system (although possibly not MRT's) so in that direction its backwards compatible but since you need to upgrade for the Percy PT its not fully.

Yes, timing gear moves on - but there is a big difference here. The past systems were a matter for clubs and each change was paid for from club funds. Here the issue is with PERSONAL transponders ie owned by individual racers. Now if you own an MRT PT right now you should be pretty peeved because your PT could possibly become useless when this change happens. OK, so it won't affect AMB/Mylaps owners and new Percy owners will be dead pleased, but some racers are potentially going to be forced to buy new PT's from this.

Of course its true MRT might be able to fix their PT's to work with the new system, but its still annoying having to send to to be updated.

[SlowOne]

Whilst it is true that the Purcy might not be backwards compatible, I can't see how those with MRT transponders can complain. MRT copied the AMB system of signalling, and don't own or lead the design of the system.

Like any 'copied' design it gets superseded. Trying to eliminate the competition is something the market does all the time, so if you buy a 'copy' that's the risk you take. You can hardly blame AMB for trying to put a competitor at a disadvantage!

MRT users bought a copy; this is what is likely to happen; suck it up!

[knighthawk]

I agree with SlowOne on this...

With all electronics, racers say buy the best you can, ie Futaba / KO / Sanwa
Your buying the quality and the years of development.

Now you can go out a buy a Cheap BlueBird Servo for £10, it's a servo and does what a servo is meant to do, but it will fail due to it being a cheap copy of proven quality products..

MRT done what it said on the tin, cheap item for the job
MyLaps have the right to close a loop hole which MRT have exploited

[Si Coe]

Except quite a lot of the MRT's in use are cloned from the same owners AMB. Thats a feature AMB did not offer (until Percy) so if you wanted multiple PT's on the same number MRT wasn't the 'copy' but the only option.
Of those who had the AMB's cloned, some now only run the MRT clone, the AMB having long since died since unlike the AMB's you can have the refitted with new leads etc.
MRT's aren't just copies - they offered things AMB did not.

[knighthawk]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

Except quite a lot of the MRT's in use are cloned from the same owners AMB. Thats a feature AMB did not offer (until Percy) so if you wanted multiple PT's on the same number MRT wasn't the 'copy' but the only option.
Of those who had the AMB's cloned, some now only run the MRT clone, the AMB having long since died since unlike the AMB's you can have the refitted with new leads etc.
MRT's aren't just copies - they offered things AMB did not.

I agree with the need to want all your cars on one number, something MyLaps said they would offer with the Harry.
But for what ever reason it hasn't happened.

But I used to have all my PC's on one Windows Copy with a hack with allowed it to be authenticated, but Microsoft closed this loophole, the same applies here unfortunately.

Unless MRT can overcome this issue then MRT users will have to buy new transponders, again unfortunately its that simple

[mark christopher]

my mrt is a replacement for my amb which suffered a broken wire, amb offered no customer support and told me to buy a new one which the same could happen again, mrt far surpassed them.

[MattW]

I've got this really revolutionary idea for everyone. Let's wait and see what actually happens.....

[mikeyscott]

Originally Posted by MattW

I've got this really revolutionary idea for everyone. Let's wait and see what actually happens.....

What a brilliant idea lol

We all have our views, I have had probs with MRT, others haven't and so forth.

[mark christopher]

Pure RC4 (Purcy) UK Pricing
Prices from January 1st 2013 are as follows:

Purcy without clip £65
Purcy x 3 with clips £194
...Purcy x 6 with clips £378
Purcy x 10 with clips £612
We expect to have the Purcy on sale by the end of November from stock. Until the end of December prices will be approximately 5% less than the above list. While Purcys without CarID will be available from stock, if you require additional Purcys with the same 7 digit number these will be available to order. Purcy with Car ID 1-7 will be the same price as Purcy without Car ID. Please note that Purcy will ONLY work with RC4 firmware Decoders. When we feature Purcy on the sales page there will be a link to a list of Clubs who have RC4 firmware Decoders. Right now that list is empty.

[knighthawk]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

Right now that list is empty.

Bit Obvious this one as it's not been released yet

RC4 Decoder
The RC4 Decoder uses the same physical decoder as the latest RC3 Decoders with updated firmware. The Firmware update, expected to be available by the end of November, is a free download. To get the download you will have to register the Mac address and you will receive a program to run on your PC with the Decoder connected. This program updates the decoder. Full details of this process will be available soon.

[skiv]

Originally Posted by Coastal

And to others who have posted - PLEASE READ THE FACTS the new system is backward compatible and will work with all amb digital transponders, from the red handouts, 3 lug personal & Harry Transponders also the new Pure personal transponders.
The new pure personal transponders will not work with older decoders.

Why do so many people post on hearsay?

Thanks for the quote, and as the SiCoe suggested I was talking about the Purcy not being backward compatible, where when we last switched systems the new transponders did work with the old system although only the last digit of the number was recognised.

So not really any hearsay going on there, the facts were read understood and quoted.

The facts still are that the RC4 system will only fully work with the purcy, but a club that switches to RC4 will still be able to count all amb/mylaps transponders, and probably mrt too, but we wont know until it is tested, as said before could be scaremongering. BUT a driver who buys a purcy will have to check the list of no clubs (at the moment) before their laps will count.

I was just suggesting what might have been a better use of the purcy only needing to stock one transponder and it would count everywhere.

As said above, we just have to wait and see what happens, but at the moment no club i know is going to upgrade their firmware.

Sounds like good news that we don't have to send the box to BBK for firmware upgrade though, if/when we want it.

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

Except quite a lot of the MRT's in use are cloned from the same owners AMB. Thats a feature AMB did not offer (until Percy) so if you wanted multiple PT's on the same number MRT wasn't the 'copy' but the only option.
Of those who had the AMB's cloned, some now only run the MRT clone, the AMB having long since died since unlike the AMB's you can have the refitted with new leads etc.
MRT's aren't just copies - they offered things AMB did not.

Sorry Si for not making myself clear. MRTs are not cloned from AMBs. They are copies able to deal with the AMB signalling system that are programmed with a number you give them. As it happens, MRT did what AMB did not - allowed repairs and changes of wire, made them more reliable, and allowed you to have more than one with the same number.

The fact remains that the system of signalling was developed at their expense by AMB and copied by MRT. In that respect we MRT users can expect no allowance from AMB when they update their product, we just have to suck up whatever the situation is.

One thing I can't get away from - as a new product launch designed to attract people to upgrade their lap-counting and spend some money with AMB, this ranks alongside 'new' Coke and Toyota accelerator pedals as a PR disaster!

Like Matt, I'll wait and see....

[Si Coe]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

One thing I can't get away from - as a new product launch designed to attract people to upgrade their lap-counting and spend some money with AMB, this ranks alongside 'new' Coke and Toyota accelerator pedals as a PR disaster!

Not really - at the end of the day a high proportion of racers exhibit serious magpie like behaviour and will no doubt be pre-ordering Percy's because they are new and fancy even though no clubs can currently run them.

We are ridiculous 'bandwagon' jumpers to a man - just look at the current fashion for +8mm chassis. Notice its got to be 8mm longer - no more no less - regardless of the original length. 8mm longer is cool, even when its actually not as good on your clubs tight twisty track!

Percy's will be released, the magpies will buy, then moan the clubs into going RC4 and the rest of us will have to fit in. Such is the real nature of this hobby.

[MattW]

Really?? I don't know a single person who looked at the RC3/Harry transponder and thought "do you know what, that looks so much better than the transponder that I have - I must buy one". If they didn't then, I don't see why they will with RC4.

Maybe the people I race with aren't normal!! well........

[dale]

It's a free firmware upgrade from an RC3 to the RC4, allowing clubs with an RC3 to upgrade and run Purcy transponders for zero outlay.

But there are lots of clubs still running the original AMBrc box (the original boxes with a working USB port and no Ethernet), which can't be upgraded via firmware. For these clubs its a £415 hardware upgrade, which a lot of them can't afford.

And until every club you race at has upgraded to an RC4 box/firmware, there's no point buying a Purcy transponder. I assume AMB/Mylaps will continue to make the Harry transponder for the forseeable future. If not there will be a lot of sales going MRTs way, as it's likely to be many years (decades?) before all clubs have switched to the RC4.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Price for the new Purcy on the website

http://www.bbksoftware.com/

[mark christopher]

Glen try reading post 110 mate lol

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by MattW

Really?? I don't know a single person who looked at the RC3/Harry transponder and thought "do you know what, that looks so much better than the transponder that I have - I must buy one". If they didn't then, I don't see why they will with RC4.

Maybe the people I race with aren't normal!! well........

Agree with you, can't find a single person who automatically upgraded their transponder when Harry came out. In terms of value, Purcy is no faster, no better and no cheaper and RC4 is backwards compatible to my current kit. Explain to me again why I'd want one...? I'll stick with the idea that we are the normal ones!!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Agree with you, can't find a single person who automatically upgraded their transponder when Harry came out. In terms of value, Purcy is no faster, no better and no cheaper and RC4 is backwards compatible to my current kit. Explain to me again why I'd want one...? I'll stick with the idea that we are the normal ones!!

can i join your club pete?