oOple National 1/10th series?

[David Church]

So you guys that want no F1 or F2 drivers, you believe that this event would be full without them?

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by David Church

So you guys that want no F1 or F2 drivers, you believe that this event would be full without them?

as has been said there are far more f3/4/5 drivers in the uk than f1/f2, and the f1/2 fill a national!! how many want to do the oople meet that are not f1/2?
i dare say many f3,4,5 local to the event may enter too that may not ccomit to a serries

[daz]

If it was made into a one day event on the same day as the nationals then it would get a very good attendance with only F3,4 and 5s. Dont think it would work over a full weekend imo

[Dyna]

I agree that current F1's shouldnt be allowed to race, but in the case of F2's the standard of driving is wider tbh - depending on the region, a F2 in region A might just be a F3 in region B.

So you could do the reverse of what the Nationals do - F3/4/5 drivers have prioroty, and spaces left ( if there were any - doubtful by the sound of it ! ) could be filled by F2's that havent got an entry to the Nationals.... ?

Might be a solution.

[sosidge]

Why the rush to exclude people? F1 and F2 are just racers like the rest of us.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Dyna

I agree that current F1's shouldnt be allowed to race, but in the case of F2's the standard of driving is wider tbh - depending on the region, a F2 in region A might just be a F3 in region B.

So you could do the reverse of what the Nationals do - F3/4/5 drivers have prioroty, and spaces left ( if there were any - doubtful by the sound of it ! ) could be filled by F2's that havent got an entry to the Nationals.... ?

Might be a solution.

good idea reverse the entry selection for nationals

[Dyna]

Originally Posted by sosidge

Why the rush to exclude people? F1 and F2 are just racers like the rest of us.

I realise that Dave, but if this is going to be a series for people who cant get an entry to the Nationals because we are not good enough ( i.e. me ), if you allowed F1's to drive ( and most F2's ) it would just become mainly a overflow National series for them - you would still have a good number of F3/4/5 drivers excluded just just the same as it is now.

[DCM]

F1's were almost guaranteed an entry at the nationals, I think the whole premiss of this idea is to have a series for those who haven't got the licence grade to get in. We wouldn't want to have a meeting that maybe isn't on the same day as a National (if it is an oople series, how would Jimmy report it!!!). So we wouldn't want it being a practice for the next BRCA national.

[blue_pinky]

What about thinking about it like the football leagues?

Depending on overall numbers, it would currently most likely be like 2 divisions...

Division 1 championship for F1,2's

Division 2 championship for F3,4,5's

It's all about promotion and relegation then...race dates on the same days (as per football) and in that instance it should all probably be run by the BRCA (who would then probably need to consider expanding the section somehow to manage it).

As it stands our race calenders are already pretty full with stuff...I know I struggle to race everywhere I'd like to once you do club, regionals and nationals...then try to add the one off's like oOple, Telstar are organising one, and I know there are others too.

If another series was run by another person or organisation it then becomes a competitive series to the BRCA, and that will only weaken both organisations as people decide to one and not the other. Surely that is not best for the sport?!?!?

Having said all that....are the regionals already intended to be the 'division 2' races anyway? If you were to ask F3,4,5's how many would actually seriously want to travel the length of the country to race in it? Currently we have a relatively small number of drivers who are used to racing at nats that now can't, but is it really that many? A handful in every region I would suspect? Enough to support another series in reality? I suspect not.

Does it just mean that regionals become more important to people and the organising clubs? Once they are then as big as they can be and massively over subscribed is it then time to think about another championship maybe?

Great the sport is growing like this though isn't it! It's getting better and better all the time. First national this weekend was crazy...the level of the racing has clearly stepped up a gear this year...

[David Church]

This new series really has you lot excited!!! This is good!

[s22jgs]

maybe reversed entry is the way to go.

There are ceratain floors to basing it on F ratings.... Darren bloomfield as an example was F3 for 2011 and is F2 for 2012. Yet he can run along side lee martin all day long.

Personally i wouldnt do the series if F1 and F2 drivers were taking part. If i wanted to take part in a series with the top guys then i would apply for the nationals.

I think the whole point of this needs to be clarified... its either an overflow series which F345 have a slightly better chance of getting into, or its a series for the lesser racers to enjoy racing somewhere different and against different people.

[sosidge]

Originally Posted by Dyna

I realise that Dave, but if this is going to be a series for people who cant get an entry to the Nationals because we are not good enough ( i.e. me ), if you allowed F1's to drive ( and most F2's ) it would just become mainly a overflow National series for them - you would still have a good number of F3/4/5 drivers excluded just just the same as it is now.

My longer point would be that I doubt significant numbers of F1s (in particular) and F2s would be looking to race in the alternative series. They would be intent on doing the BRCA Nationals.

I understand where you are coming from, but I just don't think that in practice the series getting "flooded" by F1s and F2s who couldn't get into the Nationals is a realistic concern, and not one that you need to legislate against.

[David Church]

I don't think anything needs to be clarified at the moment.

This is what we know so far, there might be another series for 1/10th off road next year, that's it, the rest is just people's ideas and opinions.

I think it's good to have all sorts of opinions and ideas from many different people!!!

[jim76]

Originally Posted by blue_pinky

Having said all that....are the regionals already intended to be the 'division 2' races anyway? If you were to ask F3,4,5's how many would actually seriously want to travel the length of the country to race in it? Currently we have a relatively small number of drivers who are used to racing at nats that now can't, but is it really that many? A handful in every region I would suspect? Enough to support another series in reality? I suspect not.

Does it just mean that regionals become more important to people and the organising clubs? Once they are then as big as they can be and massively over subscribed is it then time to think about another championship maybe?

While i think another series is a good idea i'm not sure it will get the numbers needed.
As said before, the regionals are designed as the feeder series, so that as people improve at regional level they become eligible to race against the elite of the country.
The EoS finals are designed for the lower drivers to compare themselves to other drivers from other regions.

I would be eligible to enter this new series, but with current fuel costs i wouldn't be able to justify the expense, especially if they were weekend meetings with campling fees etc on top as well. And i'm fairly sure the majority of regional racers would view it likewise.

The regional series is designed to give club racers the chance to race at a series of different tracks against the best racers from the region and other clubs. Gone are the days back in the early 90's when i had to prebook to get one of the 120 slots for a regional!!
If every region was oversubscribed for the basic regional events then i think this second series would succeed. I'm just not sure there are enough drivers prepared to travel. Those that are prepared to do this are already in the nationals.

Out of interest does anyone know how oversubscribed each event was this year? 30 drivers? 50 drivers?
That may give an indication of demand.

I like the idea of a North/South divide for the series. This would reduce travel costs and open up the possibility of an EoS final for the top drivers from each area.

[chrispattinson]

Originally Posted by blue_pinky

....long quote.... 6 posts above..... :

[RogerM]

Ok, this discussion is really good and it sounds like there is something going on in the murk of DC's mind at the minute

The thing is that you will never please all of the people all of the time, so the best thing to do is put some proposals together and put them to the vote (on here not the BRCA unless we do want to get them to autherise it is a national "B" series).

So what are the considerations that need thought? Well to my mind there are a few things (and many more that I haven't put down here).

1) F1/F2 drivers. I can understand that the idea is for the drivers who can't/don't want to get involved in the national series something else to compete in. That said if you start excluding anybody you will also start to exclude their mates they travel with etc etc etc etc.
I think that the best thing is to "discourage" rather than exclude, there are several ways of achieving that; same day as nationals, penalties for F1 drivers (say their times are multiplied by 110% so it moves them down the order ... if they are really 10% faster than the next guy nothing is going to stop them winning anyway!!).
Also the attraction of nationals for a lot of F3/4/5 racers IS to compete against the F1s and see how they compare or maybe just to watch them in awe and hopefully learn a thing or two.
I believe that the attempt to exclude certain groups of drivers from the old RRCi series helped finish the series off!

2) Dates; same dates as nationals will help discourage the F1 drivers (as they would certainly lose their F1 for the following year) but make it harder to organise as the big clubs tend to be run largely by accomplished racers/organisers (who would be at nationals) and also harder to get the media coverage.

3) MUST NOT damage regional entries! Some regions ARE over subscribed (West Mids for example) but most aren't ... if we dilute regional entries some clubs, even some regions, would start to struggle and may disappear. That is bad for the sport so must not be allowed to happen.

4) Rules; start putting motor limitations (as an example) and you will put people off as they will think "I've bought this motor to do regionals / BRCA meetings now I have to buy something else ... not interested". I think keeping the motors & cells as per the ones on the BRCA list helps encourage people to buy stuff they can use at other events and thus help allow them to cast their net wider. Maybe have a 2nd list of "acceptable" motors and cells that are cheaper / lower spec for the beginners etc. If you relax the rules what is stopping Joe Bloggs buying the Super-Dupa-Special monster motor and blitzing everybody who can't justify buying something they can only use for one even/series ... those people then get put off.
I think control tires are an essential though to keep costs sensible, maybe even limit the number of sets used to prevent Mr Moneybags putting a fresh set on every run and nullifying the chances of Little Johny with his paper round budget. You want to keep the tire to a commonly used range to as a lot of people can then chose to 'use up what they have left over' from other events to further reduce costs.
I am also fairly sure that several of the tire suppliers would be happy to do a discounted deal for tires bought at events if asked nicely and given an incentive (like them being the only supplier for wet / dry tire choice).
I also think that the tire choice needs to be consistent for ALL rounds for the same reasons.


There is a lot to consider in my opinion, not knowing what DC is up to I can't comment but one thing is for sure ... 1/10th off-road is back with a bang and the numbers now support more than one national series

[mark christopher]

roger point 1 kind of contradicts it self, dont allow em or thier mates wont come, hold it on the same weekend, so they will go with thier mates anyhow?

if you dont want a motor, why a tyre? if i travel all over the uk to do such a serries, id prefere to use what i have and not buy a set tyre for each round, unless you mean say shumacher yellow and balistic green as a control tyre at all venues, then i would agree

but bear in mind a control tyre needs policing and the idea was for this to be fun/relaxed

[tc3nitro]

It could be run like the BRCA Clubmans series for Touring cars.....

This would be an awesome idea !

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by tc3nitro

It could be run like the BRCA Clubmans series for Touring cars.....

This would be an awesome idea !

thats open to any driver though mark

[millzy]

Sounds good, but what happens when you have ex f1s and f2s dominating the championship as what happens with the f3/f4/f5 finals

Also as an f2 who cant do the nationals, it already sounds like i cant enter this as well, leaves me with the regionals