Rear hub bearings ?

[captainlip]

Originally Posted by adam_u

Can anybody point me in the direction of a retailer of the above-mentioned cheese bearings? They sound like the ones for me

Joking aside (yep it was a joke) I have actually learnt some interesting things about bearings from this thread - so, say, in an off road buggy bearings in the hubs would be better of rubber shielded whereas bearings in the drivetrain (provided it is reasonably well sealed) could live with being metal shielded (or teflon in the case of my Kyosho) - or given the fact that most of us have oodles of lipo capacity left over these days after a heat why not just go for rubber shielded throughout...is it really going to make that much difference?

Put my car out on a very wet and muddy track the other day and had a hub bearing seize almost immediately - they probably were overdue a little tlc to be fair but it had got me thinking about putting the rubber shielded ones in as they are also easier to strip down and blast out

Still haven't made up my mind on the ABEC debate but it has made me realise that higher doesn't mean better for our application

Well said! all the ones we sell are rubber shielded and tests so far appear to give a longer lasting bearing and easy to maintain.

im looking into and a pot of bearing oil in with all the kits in future OR release Lipzbitz own bearing cleaning kits, and yes these will probably come from china as its the only place I can find that sells them reasonably.

[AmiSMB]

When replacing broken bearings with new ABEC 3 or ABEC 5 bearings I find that the bearings end up slipping on the axle that they run on or sometimes the outside of the bearings can also end up rotating depending upon the tolerance of the plastics / aluminuim that they go into. This can show up on black axles as two very shiny rings. I usually use some Locktite bearing lock or a VERY small amount of tyre glue to build up the axle or outer edge of the bearing to make sure that there is a proper friction fit. This also helps make the bearings last longer as if dirt does get in then the bearing is still kept moving rather than being allows to lock up and sieze. Building the car like this means there is a lot less slop especially around hubs. Answer RC bearings also have one side which are metal and one side which is rubber shielded which means they are the best of both worlds when it comes to friction. I always used to take one rubber shield out on my old CAT XLS to get the best performance that I could as capacity back then was at a premium.

[TheReferee]

Originally Posted by captainlip

Well said! all the ones we sell are rubber shielded and tests so far appear to give a longer lasting bearing and easy to maintain.

im looking into and a pot of bearing oil in with all the kits in future OR release Lipzbitz own bearing cleaning kits, and yes these will probably come from china as its the only place I can find that sells them reasonably.

i typed a long reply to this idiot but life is frankly too short. i refer everyone to my previous posts in this thread. this fool knows jack about bearings and any statements he makes should be treated with caution.

[TonyM]

As long as a bearing is running smoothly we now have enough power in our buggies that you will hardly see any (if any) significant drop-off in speed whether you are running ABEC 1 or 5. What is significant to me is the quality of the bearing which has a direct relationship to its longevity. I don't want one to let me down while I'm racing.

Right or wrong, I've always taken ABEC 5 to be 'better' quality than ABEC 1-3 and have bought on that basis and so far the results have proven this thinking. I.E. I've run a 410 for 18 months; first five months four kit bearings seized; changed to ABEC 5 and the last 13 months all still running smoothly. Not a definitive set of stats, but it works for me.

So, on this one I'm with the Captain - it's not about speed.

[andy110m]

Lip - I work for the market leading European Distributor of Bearings. We are the largest in Europe by any measure you care to make, turnover, number of employee's or size of authorised supply base. I know bearings.

I have tried all singing, all dancing bearings from a range of market leading manufactures, SKF, NSK and INA. I have always found the cheaper end of the market to be better performing than the high end. I've spoken to SKF technical manager about this. The reason is in our application the super tght tolerances are a disadvantage. Dirt will get in, thats a fact, anyone who's done any racing and taken the wheels off will see dirt and crap wrapped round the axle, so we have to live with that fact. In the high end product the dirt gets in the bearing and on to the raceway but because of the tolerances being so tight the ball can't ride over it, the ball and raceway are both damaged by being forced to travel over the dirt. Add to that the dirt can't get out and the problem is compounded.

I'd be interested to know what brand the bearings you're suppling are. Any brand worth its salt, or producing high quality ABEC5 bearing will brand mark them. Makes sense, they are proud of their product so they put their name on it. In my experience only cheap chinese manufactures leave the bearings unmarked.

I now use run of the mill SKF or INA bearings, dependant on what we've got in stock. The metal shielded ZZ type are more efficient because the shield doesn't touch both raceways only normally the outer. The 2RS, or 2 rubber seal, type does contact both the outer and inner race and as such slows the bearing. Just for interest the best thing we can have is C3 bearings. The interal clearance is increased to allow for heat expansion, normally seen in electric motors. Most of our bearings fall into minatures and this isn't done but in some cars they do use popular metric (popmet) bearings and C3 clearance is available.

I hope someone might find this useful.

[Tweaky]

Notice these comment's from the build tip's section. My rear bearings where binding as well, this would knock a set of bearings out in no time, whatever ABEC they are. I've now added some shims as below, and it sweet.



Binding rear Hub Bearings..

Place a 5x6x.2mm shim on the axle before installing in the hub.

There is a step in the axle, the face of that step meets up with the inner edge of the outer hub bearing.

Placing a small shim on the axle before that step will take the side load off the outer hub bearing making it last much longer, with no bind.

.2mm was plenty on my car to crank the wheels down with no binding, but experiment to see what you need.

Dayton

[Rebelrc]

Am I missing something? But surely if the rating is higher (abec) it has less run out and slop so should allow less crud to enter the bearing? So should last longer?
I think I am with lippy on this one!And can't see anything wrong with him bigging his products up, all company's do.... How many Rc cars claim to be the the ultimate?
Ref , do you think as a brca ref you should be entering into spurious forum debates using words like sh*t!?
Just my thoughts

[andy110m]

Hi Rebel, the ABEC rating relates to the tolerances of the balls within the bearings. The seals or shields protect the bearing from dirt ingress and they are the same ABEC1, ABEC5 or ABECwhatever.

[Rebelrc]

Yes Andy but these components you mention run on the balls so better fit equals less slop so the shields can do their job better and less crap in the bearing
Rolling resistance maybe the same on 1-5 etc but not when they are full of crud hth

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by mikeyscott

www.rcbearings.co.uk are brilliant and cover many models. I used them on my old D410R

Originally Posted by mikeyscott

I suggested www.rcbearings.co.uk as their service to ME was great and then did the job perfectly. They are also a great price as I'll replace bearings as they're a disposable items these days.

I can highly recommend them

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Rebelrc

Am I missing something? But surely if the rating is higher (abec) it has less run out and slop so should allow less crud to enter the bearing? So should last longer?
I think I am with lippy on this one!And can't see anything wrong with him bigging his products up, all company's do.... How many Rc cars claim to be the the ultimate?
Ref , do you think as a brca ref you should be entering into spurious forum debates using words like sh*t!?
Just my thoughts

Seal is still same and you only need smaller particles of shit to get in and there seizing

[Rebelrc]

Exactly mark
The tighter the gap the slower the build up of ingress!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Rebelrc

Exactly mark
The tighter the gap the slower the build up of ingress!

yep so less crap in the tighter space causes problems. The crap/water will still get in

[jkclifford]

Personally I prefer oillite bearings.
Very simple to look after and they never seize ;-)

[andy110m]

The ABEC rating controls the Balls in the bearing and the higher the rating the less free space in the bearing. Rebel you are correct in saying the higher rating will have less run out but the seal is the same.

The seals are attached to the outer ring and the lip of the seal contacts the inner ring. This seal is not sprung or anything positive, its only a rolled rubber lip. Any dirt, dust or water doesn't have to try very hard to get past it and then as Mark said less dirt does more damage in the higher tolerance bearing for the reasons we've already discussed.

Hope that helps

[mattr]

Of course, if you want ultimate efficiency/speed, pop the seals off and just run with light oil. Then flush/dry/relube after every run.

Probably not worth it outside, but might work (ish) inside.

About 85/90% of the drag in a 2RS bearing comes from the lip contact, not the balls/races. (depending on the size of the bearing, and if its knackered or not).

[TheReferee]

Originally Posted by Rebelrc

Am I missing something? But surely if the rating is higher (abec) it has less run out and slop so should allow less crud to enter the bearing? So should last longer?
I think I am with lippy on this one!And can't see anything wrong with him bigging his products up, all company's do.... How many Rc cars claim to be the the ultimate?
Ref , do you think as a brca ref you should be entering into spurious forum debates using words like sh*t!?
Just my thoughts

i didn't realise being an official stopped me having an opinion, i call a spade a spade, last week at a meeting i told a driver he was driving like a cock, he didn't like it, he like you can report me to whoever in authority and i might get told off, in the end however the driver was still driving like a cock and lip knows jack shit about bearings. i could resign my position and the driver would still have driven like a cock and lip would still know jack shit about bearings, i could use less or more industrial language, perhaps you could inform me of a more acceptable choice of phrase to get my point across?

[captainlip]

Originally Posted by TheReferee

i didn't realise being an official stopped me having an opinion, i call a spade a spade, last week at a meeting i told a driver he was driving like a cock, he didn't like it, he like you can report me to whoever in authority and i might get told off, in the end however the driver was still driving like a cock and lip knows jack shit about bearings. i could resign my position and the driver would still have driven like a cock and lip would still know jack shit about bearings, i could use less or more industrial language, perhaps you could inform me of a more acceptable choice of phrase to get my point across?

How about you just keep your yapper shut and stop dragging up old dirt mr expert.

[TheReferee]

actually i have not been on oople for a week due to work so rebel's comment to me was new, and as he asked me a question i thought i would answer .

perhaps you could tell me to shut my yapper up in person. as for being an expert, you know nothing about me or my background so i may be the worlds authority on bearings or know even less than you. if your going to argue engineering matters and your not an engineer you are always going to lose, equally i would not enter an argument about stupidity with you as you are clearly an expert.

[captainlip]

Originally Posted by TheReferee

as you are clearly an expert.

least you got one thing right.