LiPo Batteries / £540 for damages

[jasonb]

Originally Posted by Gazza

BUT NO the BRCA want it in a LiPo sack / bag where you cant see it puffing up. . . really stupid idea IMHO

Have you ever been sat in the pits when the guy opposite has a lipo go bang due to a charger failure?
I have at the worlds in Germany and its not funnyif that cell had been in a sack the nobody would have got a face full of the noxious shite that spews forth and said racer probably wouldnt have lost.most of the gear on his pit table. No one watches their cells like a hawk when they are charging the racer in question was off truing tryes at the time (lucky for him).

Lipo sacks are a MUST in my opinion.

Jason

[DCM]

This thread has opened up a massive can of wriggly worms re: BRCA insurance and what it does for you.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by baD

Had I not stumbled on this thread I for one would be blissfully unaware, as no doubt are hundreds of other as I type.

that's why I started the thread

I wasn't until I read it racechat

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by jasonb

Have you ever been sat in the pits when the guy opposite has a lipo go bang due to a charger failure?
Lipo sacks are a MUST in my opinion.

Been close to NiMh's when they went bang, indoors at Chesterfield and a local off-road regional and folk weren't advised to charge them in ammo boxes . Chesterfield indoor pits and people sat on top of each other and outdoors the tent got burnt.

[peetbee]

Originally Posted by mattybucks

Does the club operate as per the BRCA rules re charging in a lipo sack? If so was this clearly displayed? Has the club been negligent by not enforcing the charging of lipos in sacks?

If someone was not using a set of BRCA legal cells the i'm pretty sure the BRCA could say to a member not our problem.

There are so many questions that need to be answered before anyone could possibly come to a liability decision.

There isnt a brca rule for club nights stating that cells have to be 'legal' nor that they have to be charged in a lipo sack.

[mattybucks]

Originally Posted by peetbee

There isnt a brca rule for club nights stating that cells have to be 'legal' nor that they have to be charged in a lipo sack.

If your looking to rely on your BRCA membership insurance, then I think you need to run BRCA legal cells.

[DCM]

I believe to conform to the insurance, you have to ensure you follow the General Rules, this gives the maximum power source you can use. But you must use the equipment in accordance with Manufacturers instructions.

[peetbee]

Originally Posted by mattybucks

If your looking to rely on your BRCA membership insurance, then I think you need to run BRCA legal cells.

As DCM states it's the General Rules that govern club meetings outside of a BRCA sanctioned event (ie: regionals and nationals) and the general rules don't state what you are implying.

For example, how does that work for Micros who don't use the Electric Board homologation - even soft case are legal as long as they comply with the voltage limits.

[liam]

Ive emailed the brca to ask for a copy of the policy wording because I have no idea what it covers me for!

[mattybucks]

Originally Posted by peetbee

As DCM states it's the General Rules that govern club meetings outside of a BRCA sanctioned event (ie: regionals and nationals) and the general rules don't state what you are implying.

For example, how does that work for Micros who don't use the Electric Board homologation - even soft case are legal as long as they comply with the voltage limits.

I'm talking from an insurance point of view, and I only said "think". A claims handler will look at all the information available ie list of legal cells, policy wording, and make a decision based on that.

If there's no list (like you say for micro's) then it's not an issue. But for in this example there is.

If a club allows you to use non-brca legal cells then it's at there own discresion, however depending of the policy wording it may invalidate there insurance cover.

[mattybucks]

Originally Posted by liam

Ive emailed the brca to ask for a copy of the policy wording because I have no idea what it covers me for!

Can you forward me a copy please Liam, I wouldn't mind a read to see what it says.

[baD]

Originally Posted by mattybucks

If a club allows you to use non-brca legal cells then it's at there own discresion, however depending of the policy wording it may invalidate there insurance cover.

************
There are only 2 sources of information worth reading - The Insurance Policy & The BRCA Handbook
************
Many statements in this thread are simply wrong (and I do not specifically mean the quote from Matty above) particularly if taken out of context and/or it is unclear what type of event it refers to.

The 2011 Handbook says, By Jim Spencer:-
1)
Race Equipment (batteries, motors etc)
There is only ONE BRCA rule regarding equipment that is applicable to the insurance cover.
General Rule 13, Vehicle Scope –
The BRCA will not recognise a model vehicle as being suitable for radio control that is more
than any of these measurements; 1 meter long, 20kg in weight or a maximum of 30cc engine capacity.
That’s It.

All too often I get emails / phone calls – sometimes from quite experienced people - asking (for example) “will the use of XYZ non homologated batteries invalidate the insurance”?
Nope.

2)
Homologation lists are for Nationals and Sanctioned Events use.
A club can choose to run to them if it so wishes, but that’s up to them, but either way round they have no effect on the insurance cover what-so-ever at any level of event, including the nationals too – failing scruitineering wouldn’t invalidate your cover for example.
Anybody tells you different point them at this document or ask them to check.

************

So ........ have the BRCA Officials got it wrong?
Or
Is the Underwriter banking on the Insured (the member) just caving in and giving up?

Remember, every Insurer (Home, Motor, Commercial or whatever) can just turn round at any time and say "We're not paying" and it is up to the Insured/Customer to kick up a stink.

IMHO - classing the member as also the importer means that he is being held liable as the importer, which he was, when he was, to the best of his knowledge, only acting as a BRCA Member. Therefore he should be able to invoke his BRCA Insurance to protect himself from his inadvertent negligence when unknowingly acting as an importer when importing the cells.
Bit of a catch 22 or never ending circular argument.
I hope the BRCA take up the case on behalf of the individual, not just to sort out the money in this case, but to establish the precedent re individually imported, or unknown sourced cells, or find a new insurer, or both.

[slow coach]

Originally Posted by baD

************

IMHO - classing the member as also the importer means that he is being held liable as the importer, which he was, when he was, to the best of his knowledge, only acting as a BRCA Member. .

when you are buying online or in a shop for that matter its not as a BRCA member its as a consumer, did you ask the brca before the purchase i guess not, when you use the cells you use them as a BRCA member there is a difference.

when you are or are not insured I couldnt tell you.

when you become a importer rather than a consumer again dont ask me.

look at it this way if you buy cells for you and a friend from XYZ location and your mate pays you then how do you deny being the importer!! gets trickey.

I think its fair to say that the people who look after the BRCA do so with the best interests of "US" the racers and its normally us the racers who decide all these things anyway by way of AGM/EGM, so when you say look to the BRCA to change this or change that essentially you are talking to yourself as a voting member, hows that for a kick up your own ****

[liam]

quote..."Is the Underwriter banking on the Insured (the member) just caving in and giving up?..."

Well they are there to make money not hand it out so its possable.

If the person this lipo incident happened to is reading this thread then please feel free to message me if you need friendly advice

[peetbee]

Agreed that no speculation on here will answer this, it is the policy terms and conditions that will be applicable and is something that every club and individual* should have access to.

(*not every member of the BRCA is a racer, but they are all covered by the BRCA insurance)

[baD]

Originally Posted by slow coach

..........., so when you say look to the BRCA to change this or change that essentially you are talking to yourself as a voting member, hows that for a kick up your own ****

OK - so I missed one word out - add OFFICIALS after BRCA to make the phrase read as "I hope the BRCA OFFICIALS take up the case ......"
After all the insurer will not listen to ordinary racers as we are not the ones who negotiated the terms. Is that better now that I have spelt it out for you?

Everything you do, from being born to setting fire to a £20M sports centre, killing 200 people in the process, is relevant if it is connected in any way to the proximate cause of the incident as long as the incident occurs at an R/C event, any R/C event. And all of this, negligent action or inaction, should be within the scope of a Public Liability Policy.
So, we are acting as BRCA Members when we buy cells.

[ollie]

There are no posh carpets to burn if you race nitro.

[truggy lover]

true or not now the lid is off the can the worms are out

charge in a sack , use a charger designed for lipo and be safe

all that matters really

neil

[baD]

Originally Posted by ollie

There are no posh carpets to burn if you race nitro.

but will you still be laughin if you maim a kid and your BRCA Insurance says on yer bike mate, some of your r/c gear is imported, you've invalidated your cover?

[baD]

On a positive note ........

If the situation is such that the BRCA Insurance consider the individual has acted as an individual, and not as an R/C racer when buying the cells, then the individual should approach his household insurer re the Family Liabilities section of the policy and claim.
Make the 2 insurers fight it out between them.

Most likely outcome, they both say No, and then it ends up with http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk