511 or 502?

[MattADH]

The best way to understand this is to pick the car up from underneath and hold it in your hand. If you pull the throttle hard, you will feel the car and pivot in your hand wanting to pull the front up. If you grab the brake, teh front will go down. With a shaft drive, the car will pivot to one side when you pull the throttle hard...

Think thats about right - hope it helps...

[simoncrabb]

I'm wondering why Tamiya have decided to do a shaft car now?

[mikeyscott]

Many thanks to you both for the clarification.

Certainly intersting to know

[muratti]

Originally Posted by simoncrabb

I'm wondering why Tamiya have decided to do a shaft car now?

I am sure not all Race tracks worldwide are High grip surfaces. Mine is dirt and medium grip or loose depends on the weather and i never felt that torque steer you guys are talking about but i believe that on carpet it can be much more noticeable.
In the end i think we all have to buy the car that is the quickest for the individual driver. I personally am not good enough to notice that i would be much slower on my own track with a belt or shaft driven car because i simply make too many mistakes.
I think both the 502X and 511 are superb cars. I find it relaxing to just be able to buy both technologies from the best quality manufacturer i know and have the safety not to have done anything wrong

[RBX]

I wonder if torque steer is less noticeable with brushless motors(they have lower inertia at start up) when compared to brushed motors...hmmm

[Jan Larsen]

Quite the opposite. The sheer amount of torque would simply triple the effect that we saw from the brushed motor era. Of course, this only applies in modified classes.

[DaveG28]

I think some of these effects need separating out to be honest. Whilst I'm sure you do get the effects mentioned please bear in mind:

1. The drivetrain centre assembly/shafts spin in the opposite direction to the motor making a partial offset?

2. The up/down you can notice in your hands on belt drive isn't only the motor, you have 4 big wheels, driveshafts etc still doing all that, you'll still have plenty of nose attitude throttle adjustment available over jumps

3. People on here make it sound like shaft drive is a disaster due to torque steer, remember the last 3 worlds at least have been won by shaft cars, and on the higher grip uk tracks before 2010 the last 3 national series winners at least were shaft drive, at least as far as I recall?

So I would have thought any problems would be pretty minimal to be honest!

[Jan Larsen]

Yes, its not very noticable in offroad as various results show, but onroad is a different matter. Only highly skilled or experienced drivers will notice it.

[Funkymojo]

I've seen both the 511 and 502X. In terms of bling bling ali parts, the 511 beats the 502X hands down. As all 511 owners would know, the 511 handles like a dream, it drives very well. As for the 502, i'm sure it will handle just as well. The belt vs shaft debate has been going on for ages. Belt drive cars are generally more forgiving in terms of handling and power delivery compared to a shaft drive (well, maybe that's just me). I think it all boils down to driving style, both the 511 and 502X are great cars, just get the one that suits your driving style.

[muratti]

Originally Posted by Funkymojo

I think it all boils down to driving style, both the 511 and 502X are great cars, just get the one that suits your driving style.

Just as i would have said it!

[Funkymojo]

Originally Posted by Jan Larsen

I did exactly that about 1,5 years ago, best decision ever.

Torque steer is mostly noticeably in onroad, but on carpet, it can also be felt in offroad. When you apply a lot of throttle on a high grip surface, the car tends to steer to a side (which one depends on motor location) on its own, much like a 1:1 FWD car with too much power. To combat this, they started to make belt driven cars in TC and not long after offroad followed. And this was when we still raced with brushed motors - imagine today where we have brushless motors with 3 times the torque.

For most part i agree with you but i can't agree on the part where you said "they started to make belt driven cars in TC and not long after offroad followed." Belt drive 4wd buggies have been around for a long time. All the great 4wd buggies of old like the Schumacher CAT, Yokomo Super Dog Fighter, Kyosho Optima Mid and Lazer ZX..etc were belt driven. During that time period, the only prominent company that used shaft drive on their 4wd buggies was Tamiya with their Hot Shot, Avante, Egress, Top Force...

[Jan Larsen]

Cant argue with you about that since I have no experience with cars going that far back. But I most likely stand corrected

[Colinevan]

Slightly off topic, and purely on a handling terms only. What is the main difference between the handling on a 501 and 511 then?

Thanks

Col.

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

I think some of these effects need separating out to be honest. Whilst I'm sure you do get the effects mentioned please bear in mind:

1. The drivetrain centre assembly/shafts spin in the opposite direction to the motor making a partial offset?

2. The up/down you can notice in your hands on belt drive isn't only the motor, you have 4 big wheels, driveshafts etc still doing all that, you'll still have plenty of nose attitude throttle adjustment available over jumps

3. People on here make it sound like shaft drive is a disaster due to torque steer, remember the last 3 worlds at least have been won by shaft cars, and on the higher grip uk tracks before 2010 the last 3 national series winners at least were shaft drive, at least as far as I recall?

So I would have thought any problems would be pretty minimal to be honest!

The worlds being won by shaft cars is mostly due to the fact that there are more shaft cars being raced than belt, and it also very highly depends on who's driving what, which hasn't got much to do with whether it's belt or shaft. The last worlds are a perfect example...

The reason why shaft is so popular is the maintenance, and that's all there is to it. Come race on european tracks, and you'll realise how dusty most of them are and how very quickly an open belt drivetrain will get destroyed.

Torque steer I agree is barely noticeable on an off road car, that is mainly due to the high contact patch, the track width and the nature of the grip provided by the tyres, it's hugely noticeable on TC's due, again to the size of the contact patch, track width and type of grip (plus there's more traction with TC in most cases).

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by Fabs

The worlds being won by shaft cars is mostly due to the fact that there are more shaft cars being raced than belt, and it also very highly depends on who's driving what, which hasn't got much to do with whether it's belt or shaft. The last worlds are a perfect example...

The reason why shaft is so popular is the maintenance, and that's all there is to it. Come race on european tracks, and you'll realise how dusty most of them are and how very quickly an open belt drivetrain will get destroyed.

Torque steer I agree is barely noticeable on an off road car, that is mainly due to the high contact patch, the track width and the nature of the grip provided by the tyres, it's hugely noticeable on TC's due, again to the size of the contact patch, track width and type of grip (plus there's more traction with TC in most cases).

I wasn't arguing shaft is better, just that it can't be much worse as it keeps winning, and plenty of companies who know what they're doing use it. To read some posts on here since the 502 was announced, you'd think shaft cars were undriveable! I just think there's probably very little in it!

[Funkymojo]

Originally Posted by Colinevan

Slightly off topic, and purely on a handling terms only. What is the main difference between the handling on a 501 and 511 then?

Thanks

Col.

Having driven both cars, the 501 is a very neutral handling car. It's stable and slightly sluggish in the corners. The 511 is just as stable but it's more responsive and twitchier. It goes in and out of corners faster.

[Colinevan]

Originally Posted by Funkymojo

Having driven both cars, the 501 is a very neutral handling car. It's stable and slightly sluggish in the corners. The 511 is just as stable but it's more responsive and twitchier. It goes in and out of corners faster.

Thanks

[tahe]

Can anyone say how much of torque drive is due to the engine being placed longitudinally?

I just built an Egress and I was fascinated by the driveshaft running from an elevated positions in the back to a very low position in the front.

I'm starting to wonder whether you could raise the spur gear and use a 90 degree angle to build a shaft driven car with the motor in a belt car position and how that would drive.

[quarter throttle]

definately keeping my 511 i absolutely love it <3

might get a 502 to try .. all depends whether dad will let me

Ash

[sime46]

No brainer for me either. 511 is the absolute nuts. Great car.