BMW's plug-in baby

[bodgit]

we all race electric cars and I would,nt mind driving this.
When petrol dries up the future is starting to look better looking better
http://cars.uk.msn.com/news/photos.a...ntid=149492383


Image © BMW
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Which is to say 0-62mph in 4.8 seconds, and an electronically limited 155mph. Using Formula 1 derived aerodynamics, a twin-clutch gearbox and the very latest battery technology, it also emits just 99g/km CO2. The BMW Vision looks like the future - and the future is no longer slow.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by bodgit

When petrol dries up

It's something that we will never have to worry about. There is still as much crude in the North sea today as was predicted back in the 70's, it's just more expensive to get it out as it doesn't just flow up for years under its own pressure, we now have to inject water or gas down to get it up.

Car firms know this, hence why we are all not driving round in elec cars or anything of the green ilk, When there really is 30 years left of oil then you will be paying 10 quid a litre at the pumps

[Hog]

Plus it's been reported that BP have just discovered a huge new reserve somewhere off the Gulf of Mexico I believe.........

[Gonky]

Originally Posted by Hog

Plus it's been reported that BP have just discovered a huge new reserve somewhere off the Gulf of Mexico I believe.........

Either that or they're liquidising mexicans!

[cjm_2008]

Originally Posted by Lee

It's something that we will never have to worry about. There is still as much crude in the North sea today as was predicted back in the 70's, it's just more expensive to get it out as it doesn't just flow up for years under its own pressure, we now have to inject water or gas down to get it up.

Car firms know this, hence why we are all not driving round in elec cars or anything of the green ilk, When there really is 30 years left of oil then you will be paying 10 quid a litre at the pumps

...but just because the oil is there, does it mean that car manufacturers shouldn't (or shouldn't be forced) to develop electric technologies?

to me, using decayed dinosaur & plant matter to get from A to B seems a bit stupid, not to mention damaging to the only planet we have.

don't get me wrong, I love the sound that comes out of the pipes of my bikes and my kart. but we are totally at the mercy of the oil companies at the moment and it's because no one wants to upset the status quo.

show me a fully electric / fuel cell car that will deliver a 200 mile range with 70mph cruise capability & a price within 50% of a fossil fuelled equivalent, and I'll show you my chequebook

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Hog

Plus it's been reported that BP have just discovered a huge new reserve somewhere off the Gulf of Mexico I believe.........

There is loads of oil out around Brazil etc, in the last month alone we have had 2 facilities go online, the biggest problem companies have had in the past has been the depth of the water they can extract oil from. One of the ones we have just put on line is drilling from a sea bed depth of over 2600m which is a fair depth, its the deepest in the world right now.
I also agree that yes it would be great to have a technology that can be 'green' (if your that way inclined) and can give you a 200m range etc, the fact of the matter is at the moment they can't. Even the honda that runs on hydrogen is bloody expensive. It will happen eventually but i can't see it being for a decade or so yet.

[Hog]

Apparently the new field lies 4100 metres below the wet stuff!!!

[Lee]

Hmmm i wonder where that bad boy is being built

[CBRDEAN0]

Originally Posted by cjm_2008

show me a fully electric / fuel cell car that will deliver a 200 mile range with 70mph cruise capability & a price within 50% of a fossil fuelled equivalent, and I'll show you my chequebook

And according to the WEEE directive - still do nothing for the environment in total - The current re-cycling costs of the Honda the Toyota and the Lexus "GREEN" cars completely outweighs the lower emissions from them.

It would be far greener to run the latest fuel efficient supermini

[DCM]

Hybrids, there carbon footprint is massive, due to the complexities of making the batteries, simple as that, so where you will be putting out less when running, you got massive carbon overheads from manufacture.

To be honest, electricity isn't the answer, another 'clean' fuel is the way to go, so when you run out, you can get filled up, you don't need to leave the car on charge (love to see the lipo charge sack for that bugger!), etc, plus, with electric cars, the electricity still has to be produced, and unless it is coming from, either solar or wind, you still got carbon overheads.

The only thing I do agree with, is looking for another source of fuel, not electric.

Lee, is it true, most wells don't get even half empty before they are capped?

[cjm_2008]

Originally Posted by DCM

with electric cars, the electricity still has to be produced, and unless it is coming from, either solar or wind, you still got carbon overheads.

.... not neccesarily so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

when you read that wiki article it soon becomes painfully obvious that our own domestic electricity strategy is fooked. france produces so much power that they actually sell off surplus!

my dream is a nuclear grid powering hundreds of hydrogen refining stations, and fuel cells in most cars - thus solving the charging conundrum.

[Lee]

DCM I wouldn't say it's true nowadays because technology has moved on and we have ways to get the oil through the bed, things like water injection and natural gas lift, this wasn't possible years ago so as soon as they lost pressure it will have been capped. There are also specialist companies who take over an ageing platform and upgrade it to get the last of the oil out and then decommission the platform, saying that some platforms are 60 years old. Bp etc are only interested in the initial boom of oil because it's easy they don't like to have to work for it because it costs money. Nowadays it's harder to extract it though and WI is used from the start. And the rigs get moved around to extract from different wells

[Elliott Hopkins]

Howdy,

In cars, the fuel cell industry may be beaten to the spot of '#1 alternative to fossil fuels' by more nuclear power stations to power the national grid AND effective enough battery technology in cars such that batteries will last a whole day on one charge from a 3-pin plug and be able to be charged very quickly if necessary.

A more robust and effective battery powered vehicle, whose technology started with milkfloats, has progressed to the 'G-Whiz' and is currently being run in those 'Tesla' cars, is needed.

However the fuel cell industry is currently focussed on making the components of the system cheaper for commericalization. Platinum levels in the active part are falling (there is also research into cheaper Pt free catalysts) but the overall efficiency is going up and I am currently involved in reducing the costs of another part of the system.

There is no shortage of Hydrogen around in the UK. It is a by product of the Chlor-Alkali industry, but there is a shortage of H2 refuelling infrastructure. In fact there is currently only one H2 refuelling pump in the UK, tucked away at Birmingham University.

Sadly, we won't find an alternative to the internal combustion engine until we have properly drained our oil resources and have screwed the planet.

Global investment in the industry is only a token effort. Indeed, I've felt that the investment from some of the large American car companies I've worked for has only been for the benefit of a couple of lines in their promotional literature.

This would be my view from inside the fuel cell industry. As such, as well as the cynicism, there will also be a little bias.

Elliott.
10 years a fuel cell engineer. Syntax not my strongpoint. :-)

[ianjoyner]

There must be some maturity in electric vehicles, BMW have an electric Mini going on trial with 20 members of the public in the South East:

http://www.mini.co.uk/html/about_us/...route=promobox#

From the website it looks well finsihed. Capable of motorway speeds and decent acceleration, 100+ mile range and 4.5 hour charge.

This would suit my wife and I as a second car very nicely.

Is it just the cost of batteries that holds this being taken to production? Or are they dragging their feet because of the massive change this could make to their industry and associated industries?

There are many reports showing that there is less carbon produced per mile by an electric car supplied from the UK grid mix vs a petrol car. I don't know about battery production.

[DCM]

Originally Posted by cjm_2008

.... not neccesarily so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

when you read that wiki article it soon becomes painfully obvious that our own domestic electricity strategy is fooked. france produces so much power that they actually sell off surplus!

my dream is a nuclear grid powering hundreds of hydrogen refining stations, and fuel cells in most cars - thus solving the charging conundrum.

I used to be pro-nuclear, but it leaves such a legacy, and the effects if it goes all pete-tong is immense, I would rather see windfarms and the government installing solar energy on your houses too, than billions invested in nuclear power stations, but thats by the by.

With electric cars, you either got to have a way of recharging in a convenient time, or have a suplemental energy creation source onboard, otherwise, you are limited in runtime.

[dodgydiy]

look up tesla motors, now thats what an electric car should be like, but not at that price