Need forward traction...

[Wacker 2]

Hi guys.. another set up request...

I am currently running 4 degree toe in block and 4 degree anti-squat but am really struggling getting drive out of the corners or any decent acceleration grip. Have got quite good side bite tho!

Am currently running the Espeed hangers with the camber link on the inside of the rear hubs making them as short as possible,

I am running an x6 squared chassis but the rest of the car is original x6, so all the wishbones and shock towers are the original ones. I have been told that with the Rear toe in block being flat to the chassis gives the 4 degree toe in... is this correct???

My car, as per the set up sheets and tips, should have amazing forward traction and low side traction - but frustratingly it is the oposite?

Any ideas?

Muchos gracious, Jon!

I should also point out that I have been mainly driving on astro turf so far this year with this current set up but I would have thought the theory would be simular for astro or grass!!!

[Mike Hudson]

are you the one that totally changed your chassis battery config???

[warped]

Were you running at normal weight on sunday, or did you add a lot more weight than normal to reach 4wd weight limit?

Adding lots of weight low down, can make a car feel exactly as you describe.

[Paul_Sinclair]

Originally Posted by Wacker 2

Hi guys.. another set up request...

I am currently running 4 degree toe in block and 4 degree anti-squat but am really struggling getting drive out of the corners or any decent acceleration grip. Have got quite good side bite tho!

Am currently running the Espeed hangers with the camber link on the inside of the rear hubs making them as short as possible,

I am running an x6 squared chassis but the rest of the car is original x6, so all the wishbones and shock towers are the original ones. I have been told that with the Rear toe in block being flat to the chassis gives the 4 degree toe in... is this correct???

My car, as per the set up sheets and tips, should have amazing forward traction and low side traction - but frustratingly it is the oposite?

Any ideas?

Muchos gracious, Jon!

I should also point out that I have been mainly driving on astro turf so far this year with this current set up but I would have thought the theory would be simular for astro or grass!!!

Quick Point: the height of the toe-block affects antisquat not the toe-in. I think you know that but just typed it wrong. You are correct that, with the squared chassis; having the toe-bar flat on the chassis is 4* of antisquat.

As for set-up, I know I come from dirt and not grass/astro but I do have two comments. First, that inside 'A' hole in the rear hub is going to allow the rear to slide around quite a bit. I think most of the team guys over there are running in the outside 'C' hole, which is going to help the car drive much more "square" coming out of corners.

Second thing, if you're still looking for forward traction one of the biggest things you can do is move the rear arms and hubs forward. This makes a big difference w/ the X - 6, and I'd highly recommend trying the adjustment out to get a good feeling for it.

[Body Paint]

Originally Posted by Paul_Sinclair

As for set-up, I know I come from dirt and not grass/astro but I do have two comments. First, that inside 'A' hole in the rear hub is going to allow the rear to slide around quite a bit. I think most of the team guys over there are running in the outside 'C' hole, which is going to help the car drive much more "square" coming out of corners.

Second thing, if you're still looking for forward traction one of the biggest things you can do is move the rear arms and hubs forward. This makes a big difference w/ the X - 6, and I'd highly recommend trying the adjustment out to get a good feeling for it.

I would agree with that Paul.

One thing which we are noticing, even on high grip tracks is that the car needs to be at least 1650g to produce the amount of grip needed to cope with Lipo/brushless power. Typically the UK team are running between 1650 and 1740g. It may also be worth you trying to get the weight balance somewhere near 65/35.

Without seeing your whole setup Jon, it is difficult to diagnose the problem.

[super__dan]

I agree with everything above, obviously there is the weight issue and where it is within your car (assuming it's still saddles). Using the A hole will mean lots of camber change in bump (squatting) and less in roll, i.e. lots of camber change on acceleration. The C hole will be the opposite so should give more drive I think, that said with everything it's always about finding a balance. Personally I run the C hole nearly everywhere (high grip on B) and I run hubs short wheelbase and the wishbones medium.

[mark christopher]

diff not tight enough??

[Wacker 2]

Cheers guys, gives me a few things to try.

Also regarding set ups... what is gurney that people talk about when describing their rear wing???

Thanks, Jon

[Lee]

Gurney is the near vertical bit at the rear of the wing. More or less is pretty obvious, it helps with the flight of the car.

[Body Paint]

This is a gurner

[Kopite]

Suppose this would be a good place to talk about raising the gearbox height, and whether anyone (i imagine so) has really tested this on UK tracks?

I'm about to start dicking about with this, as i'd like more drive, but less side bite out of my car, and i think the gearbox height changes could be a good way to get what i'm after

what do others think?

[Lee]

I know Ellis has played about a lot with this, i'm sure he will comment later, i think he raises it when he wants more drive, like when it rains etc or at the euros on the dust.

[Wacker 2]

Originally Posted by Kopite

Suppose this would be a good place to talk about raising the gearbox height, and whether anyone (i imagine so) has really tested this on UK tracks?

I'm about to start dicking about with this, as i'd like more drive, but less side bite out of my car, and i think the gearbox height changes could be a good way to get what i'm after

what do others think?

I'm looking for exactly the same and the gear box height is something I was thinking of trying next... so I'll be very interested to hear what people have tried and what results they have had.

Thanks, Jon

[Lee]

It definately works, the car does have a lot more drive and tends to pivot a lot more, it has the feeling of more weight further forward with the gearbox raised.

The car is awesome for adjustability

[Body Paint]

I would say it feels very similar to how the car feels if you raise the rear ride height, though you do get a bit more forward drive on power.

I have found that I tend to leave the gearbox down and adjust the antisquat or ballstud on the rayspeed hubs to alter the amount of pivot that I want.

The only time I have raised mine is on wet grass when traction was very low.

[Wacker 2]

I will be sure to try that this weekend...

I bought my x6 second hand and was not given any of the kit spacers - so I need to just run some normal spacers/washers... what sort of mm size spacers/washers should I be looking to try?

Thanks, Jon!

[Kopite]

i'm off to raise my gearbox by 10ft

[Lee]

Wacker, the spacers go up in .03" and there are 3 of them i think .03" is about .75mm

[jono83]

lmao

[YoungChazz]

All X - 6, X - 6 Sq, and X - 60 Kits include a bag of anti-squat shims and a bag of tranny spacers.

There are 6 anti-squat shims. (XF3250) Two are .030" and four are .060" so you can adjust anti-squat in increments of .030" all the way from zero to .150". In general, more anti-squat (Toe-in bar closer to the chassis.) gives better forward bite, less side bite. Less anti-squat (Toe-in bar higher.) is the opposite.

The Kits also contain 16 transmission spacers. (XF5700) There are four each of .030", .060". .090", and .120" giving adjustments in increments of .030" all the way from zero to .120". In general, a higher tranny gives more forward bite and less side bite. Lower tranny = opposite.

Both parts should be available at all X Factory stockists.

Since both of these adjustments affect forward- and side- bite, you should play with them in tandem to get the setting that is correct for you and today's track conditions.

Brian Kinwald hands me a set-up sheet and says, "This set-up was right for me at this time on this track." His set-ups change as the day goes along and from track to track. Brian's and Paul's set-ups are completely different at the same time on the same track, but that is what is working for each of them at that moment.

Those who slavishly copy a particular set-up from a particular time at a particular track by a particular driver do themselves a disservice. The famous Ellis Oz set-up is a good starting point for many drivers at many tracks, but that's the point: it's a beginning. I believe most of the fun in R/C racing is working and thinking hard to dial your car in to this track at this time on this day. It's quite satisfying to do the work, then go out and achieve superior results. Totally dialed!

And that is why all the X Cars are more adjustable than anything else out there. More fun for the Family!