F1 - Melbourne.. Predictions??

[Fabs]

I Think this couldn't be anymore clear:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9115.html

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Fabs

This is funny... So last year there were claims that the FIA was in favour of Ferrari... But this time, the Ferraris didn't even finish so it's to no advantage for them. Still people claim Hamilton and Mc Laren are being treated with unfairness... You guys might have to consider the idea that there could be a good reason for that.

What about Trulli? Was it fair that he got a penalty even though he didn't do anything wrong ? Surely if Hamilton passed him under safety car then let him through again, then he deserved that 3rd place...

Originally Posted by Fabs

As I understand the reason for Hamilton's disqualification is not about who passed who but about what they told the stewards at the time and if they said something that wasn't the truth to make sure they got 3rd place, surely they have to be penalised for that.

agree fabs

"I think Lewis then saw half a chance of a third place instead of a fourth, went up to the stewards and didn't give them the full story.
"Now they've matched up his comments (to them) to radio content between him and the team, and other information they've gathered, and they've decided that effectively he was telling fibs.
"I think it's a big issue and it's not going to go away. If they were asked a direct question they should have given the right answer, and they clearly didn't."

"Vodafone McLaren Mercedes understands that the Stewards made their decision on the basis of reviewing radio transmissions between the driver and the Team. "

"The Team mistakenly believed that the radio transmissions had been reviewed by the FIA on Sunday 29th March 2009, and consequently did not believe it was necessary to discuss them with the Stewards on that date."

"Nonetheless, the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Team now regrets that it did not do so, accepts the Stewards' decision and will not appeal."





see if lewis can get his head out of his own bottom now!!

[DCM]

it still comes down though, that people will look at this and think... WTF... decisions are made, then changed and changed again. They have enough camera's around the track, they can see almost everything that goes on, the decision should be made there and then, this is why people are going away from F1.

[mark christopher]

same could be said for the diffusers, they have interpreted the rules, then either the rules are not clear or the one moaning missed the boat and easy option is to protest, why dont they shut the Fudge up and get on with it?

[Fabs]

But then teams and drivers shouldn't be lying...

[DaveG28]

Unless the stories have changed what happened is this:

Trulli fell off and rejoined behind Hamilton. Trulli knew he was not allowed to reovertake but as I believe video has since shown Hamilton slows and pulls to the side. Trulli quite reasonably thinks this means Hamilton has problems and legally reovertakes him. (the key to remember here is the rule is that you only have to reasonably think the guys in trouble to overtake, he doesn't actually have to be in trouble.

Toyota and Mclaren did not speak to each other so neither knew what to do. Ideally Hamilton should be 3rd and Trulli 4th, legally Trulli is third and Hamilton 4th. Somehow it's all got cocked up!!

I believe the key thing Mclaren got wrong was not telling the stewards Hsmilton had deliberately slowed under their instructions, therefore making it look as if Trulli overtook for a different reason, which is naughty of Mclaren/Hamilton, but it's a harsh penalty!!

[Southwell]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

I believe the key thing Mclaren got wrong was not telling the stewards Hsmilton had deliberately slowed under their instructions, therefore making it look as if Trulli overtook for a different reason, which is naughty of Mclaren/Hamilton, but it's a harsh penalty!!

It's been quoted that they attempted to contact the stewards and didn't get any response on several occasions.

[greggy]

can i just ask
i tink im stupid
what is ther KERS system

[mark christopher]

Of the radical changes to the technical regulations being implemented in Formula 1 for 2009, the biggest challenge for teams is the development of Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (KERS).
The energy-saving devices have hit the headlines for unwelcome reasons over the past week, raising serious questions about both safety and whether the systems will be ready for next season.
So with this in mind, we asked our expert analyst Mark Hughes to demystify the whole KERS concept; and to explain both the challenges that need to be overcome and the likely effects on car performance.


The Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) dominates technical talk in the F1 paddock right now.
Next year’s new regulations allow these devices to be used for the first time. They store energy otherwise lost during braking and convert it into power.
Legislating the devices into the rules is one thing; getting them working effectively and safely is something else. Teams have only just begun testing them and already we have seen two battery fires and a mechanic receiving an electric shock.


How KERS will work

There are expected to be two types of KERS systems in use next year: battery and flywheel.
The battery system seems set to be the more popular method. It harnesses the braking energy by storing it in super-capacitor batteries which then release power to the driven wheels when required.
The flywheel method looks set to be used by Williams (and possibly Honda and/or Toyota). Here the braking energy is used to turn a flywheel and when extra power is needed the wheels are coupled up to the spinning flywheel to give a boost in power.
Initially, the regulations limit the power of the KERS systems to 60kw (around 80 horsepower) and the storage capacity of the energy is 400kJ (kilojoules) per lap. What in effect this means is an extra 80 horsepower available for 6.7s per lap.
The idea is not only to force F1 to develop green technology but also to help overtaking. A chasing driver could deploy his KERS device as he is catching the car ahead to give him an acceleration boost.
Of course the driver being chased can use his KERS device defensively at the same time, thus negating the chasing driver’s power advantage.
But the limited storage of extra energy means that drivers will have to be very tactical in how they deploy the device.
Because it takes time to restore the energy after you’ve used it, it could be that you have used up your supply and the guy behind still has some left as you arrive at the critical point of the track.
In principle it brings an interesting new dimension to F1. But there are a lot of difficulties to overcome first – and it is by no means certain that teams will have their devices ready in time for the beginning of next season.

The use of KERS will not be compulsory, and so several teams are expecting to at least start 2009 without it.





The challenges

Although battery-type KERS devices are used on hybrid road cars such as the Toyota Prius, the technology required for an F1 application will be rather different.
The batteries in a road-going hybrid are expected to last for pretty much the life of the vehicle.
Because this is F1 the batteries here will need to be as small and light as possible for the given level of power, and as such they will be ‘on the edge’ technologically and will probably last only for one race weekend – if that long!
BMW’s Mario Theissen has pointed out that the power-to-weight ratio of the F1 device is three to four times that used in the company’s hybrid road cars.
The safety concerns surround electrical fires with the batteries and the risk of electrocution.
When the cars come into the pit garages still carrying their stored electrical energy, the teams will need equipment that releases this energy from the car into a storage device. Only then will the car be safe to work on.
The implication is that marshal posts will need access to similar equipment in the event of a stranded car on-track.
The matter of exploding batteries is a potential hazard not only for the driver and crew but also for those anywhere near because of the chemicals used in the lithium batteries.
Teams believe they can install the batteries and/or flywheels in such a way that there is no risk of them coming adrift in the event of an accident, but that is something that will need to be incorporated into the standard FIA crash-testing of each design before it is allowed onto the track.


The effects on performance

As yet, the performance gains are not expected to be overwhelming.
The use of an extra 80bhp for just under 7s would nominally gain around 0.3s of lap time, but against that gain needs to be subtracted the effect of the less optimal placing of weight.
The devices, with batteries and associated equipment, will weigh around 35kg.
Teams currently use around 60-70kg of ballast, which they place wherever best suits the dynamics of the car on a given track. But wherever they place it, it is always very low down in order to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible.
With KERS devices using up around half the current ballast, the centre of gravity height will increase and there will be less flexibility in where the weight is situated within the wheelbase.
There are potential issues also with torque effects on the rear axle as the device becomes saturated and cannot accept any more braking energy. The step change on the axle load could make the car unstable under braking.
The current plan is that the power and storage capacity of the devices will be progressively increased over coming seasons, with a jump to 100kw and 800kJ of storage in 2011 and then 200kw and 1,600kJ in 2013 taken from both axles rather than just the rear axle, as configured until then.
But as can be appreciated, there’s an awful lot of work to do yet just getting the first generation of devices safely up and running.

[Southwell]

Honda's KERS system is flywheel based and supposed to be incredible, shame Honda kept the rights for the motor.

[Southwell]

Transcript of McLaren radio communication:


Phil Prew (race engineer to Hamilton): OK Lewis, you just need to make sure your delta's positive over the safety car line. After the safety car line the delta doesn't matter, but no overtaking. No overtaking.

Lewis Hamilton: The Toyota went off in the second to last corner I overtook him is that OK?

PP: Understood, Lewis. We'll confirm and get back to you.

LH: He was off the track. He went wide.

PP: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

LH: OK.

(Hamilton yields to Trulli, unseen on TV screens)

LH: He's slowed right down in front of me.

PP: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We'll get back to you. We're talking to Charlie (Whiting, race director).

LH: I've let him past already.

PP: OK, Lewis. That's fine. That's fine. Hold position. Hold position.

LH: Ask Charlie I already overtook him and I've just let him past so...

PP: I understand Lewis. We are checking. Now can we go to yellow G5, yellow Golf 5.

LH: If I don't have to let him past then I should be able to take that position back, because he made a mistake.

Dave Ryan (team manager): Yes, we understand Lewis. Let's just do it by the book. We're asking Charlie now. You are in P4, if you hold this position. Just keep it together.

PP: OK Lewis, your KERS is full, your KERS is full. Just be aware. You can go back to black F2, black Foxtrott 2.

LH: Have you found out from Charlie on whether I can take it back or not?

PP: We're till waiting on a response Lewis, still waiting.

PP: Lewis, work on your brakes please. Front brakes are cold.

DR: Lewis, If we are able to use, to deploy KERS that would be good. If you can deploy KERS please do so now.

PP: OK, Lewis, this is the last lap of the race. At the end of the lap the safety car will come in, you just proceed over the line without overtaking, without overtaking. We are looking into the Trulli thing, but just hold position.

(Hamilton finishes the race fourth, behind Jarno Trulli)

[DaveG28]

Hmmm, its pretty clear he deliberately let him overtake, sounds dodgy by Mclaren and Hamilton to me!

[bodgit]

0614: BREAKING NEWS FROM SEPANG: McLaren sporting director Dave Ryan - who accompanied Lewis Hamilton to the fateful stewards' meeting in Australia - has been seen leaving the track with packed bags. Subsequently there is speculation that he has left the team after more than 30 years' service. Communications director Matt Bishop told BBC Sport the team were "not confirming anything at the moment" but added that McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh would hold a news conference later on Friday.

[RickRick]

McLaren Mercedes statement in full
This morning, Dave Ryan was suspended from his position as Sporting Director of the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes team.

Team Principal Martin Whitmarsh said: “In my 20-odd years working for McLaren, I doubt if I’ve met a more dedicated individual than Davey. He's been an integral part of McLaren since 1974 and has played a crucial role in the team’s many world championship successes since that time."

“However, his role in the events of last Sunday, particularly his dealings with the FIA stewards, has caused serious repercussions for the team, for which we apologise. Therefore, I suspended him this morning and he has accepted this.”

[nobby]

hamilton = cheat or liar you decide.

then again this all shows him up as what he is arrogant

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by nobby

hamilton = cheat or liar you decide.

...or apparently someone daft enough to say what one of his bosses told him to say, just like the rest of us.

Stupid thing to do as in interviews straight after the race he'd already told the whole world (apart from the 3 stewards apparently) that he had let him through. Idiot.

It would be good to get a transcript of the meeting, so we would actually know if they were asked if he was told to let Trulli through and they actually denied it, or the stewards assumed he hadn't and Mclaren just didn't bother mentioning it.