BRCA EB Battery Regs Announced

[ashleyb4]

You can fit a stick pack lipo in a xx4 with a bit of modification.

But the BRCA rules are made to make the best for our sport the best compromise without rulling out any cars or cells but also having safety in mind. There will be saddle pack lipo's that fit cars dont worry about it the companys want to make money so they will make them.

A

[DCM]

Originally Posted by Adam Skelding

I can't say I'm stunned by the decision, the BRCA seemed to dig it's heels in early.

If Orion, LRP and SMC are on the Affiliate member list, where are their legal saddle LiPo's?

Hopefully, regions (which is where this rule is going to hurt most) will allow, if they can a relaxed view on the LiPo regs. But as G has mentioned, if anything goes wrong at a BRCA sanctioned meeting the organisers are in for a rough time.

As Terry.sc has said, the BRCA have made an error, let's hope they learn from it. Hopefully, they have someone on the board next time who 'Understands what they are voting for' before they 'seriously mess up again'.

Actually, the only issue, in reality, at a regional, is if someone is using batteries out of the sanctioned list, and is allowed to go to the EOS finals, then they will have to beg/borrow legal cells. In the end, not all of us do Nationals, and there are lots and lots who do regionals, as a whole series, or the ones that are close to their home club. These guys and girls may well of invested in LiPo in the past year, for the shear convenience of the power cell. If you run your Regionals directly to the rules, then lots will now not be able to race.

I don't remember a huge muck up over brushless, but LiPo seems to of been handled with a complete fudge.

And as much as it grates me, I agree with Mark, this rule will cause problems at ALL levels. if you have a 4wd that can cater for a stick pack lipo, then you are going to be at an advantage over a 5 min run at national and regional level. The rule should of allowed ALL cars formats to use LiPo and NiMH, or they should never of passed LiPo.

[Chrislong]

I agree, less fudge with Brushless. Perhaps it was because fewer racers was using Brushless when it got in, or because Brushless hadn't stop developing very quickly at that time. I don't know. Very different, but I remember some doubt/resistance about it ever being accepted.... now looking back its the best thing since before sliced bread!

[DCM]

which makes the complete fudge over LiPo look just daft, the fact that so many wanted it, the fact that there were already a good level of common sense coming from manufacturers too.

Brushless is still going through a high development area, in type of motor winding/construction, and ESC hardware and software.

[Northy]

Originally Posted by DCM

Actually, the only issue, in reality, at a regional, is if someone is using batteries out of the sanctioned list, and is allowed to go to the EOS finals, then they will have to beg/borrow legal cells.

Again, if you run a BRCA sanctioned regional series you can not pick and choose what rules you use and what rules you don't. If it is not a sanctioned series results do not count towards driver formulas.

Originally Posted by Chrislong

I agree, less fudge with Brushless. Perhaps it was because fewer racers was using Brushless when it got in, or because Brushless hadn't stop developing very quickly at that time.

The difference was the rules for brushless motors (speedos don't matter) were written very early (sizes, connector type etc) so all were built to the rules and homologation was then pretty much a certainty.

G

[Howard1650]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

this may ruffle a few feathers and upset some but here goes..............................


i personally think the BRCA and eb bodies have let the majority of racers down

they are there to promote the sport of model car racing, and the goveners, who are voted in should represent the members who voted for them, they should not follow efra/ifmar and go against what the majority want, which is a goood fair set of rules.

not many cars require major work to take saddle packs, but now all those saddle pack cars that run lipo have no choice but to go nimh or buy a lipo stick car, this is the last thing elec off road needs as its growing imensly with allot of tc racers comin over. i really enjoy driving my buggy, but the politics is spoiling it at the moment

it will be interesting to see how many championships and clubs drop the brce/eb battery rules!

the worksop international has!!

i have certainly lost any confidence i had in the system for fairness. in this instance as the governing body has miss represented the members wishes! im vice chairman of 10th ic section and if i had not cerried out what the members wanted i would expect to have a vote of no confidence put against me and either removed from my post or asked to step down.

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthre...ight=lipo+poll

I have to agree with the above note. This decision just destroys any credibility the BRCA had. I don't even see the point of the BRCA. The organisers of successful and popular events will do and are doing what they want, and the drivers love it. It is just fun, welcoming and realistic. These events (and web sites like oOple) are push up driver numbers. The BRCA will be washed away if it is not careful.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Chrislong

My thought is the BRCA have been in a difficult position. As with the fiasco of the NIMH cell rules 12 months ago, and the exploding cells (Yes modern Ener-G cells DO explode, and let out a blue flame like a blow-torch!! as do new generation of IB's, just not as much as 2007 cells), nimh cells have a bad reputation that is justified, and still is. Anybody who wants to use them needs there plums testing.

So with all this, racers have got a little pissed off with forking out on cells, maintaining them religiously between every charge and they still loose performance or go pop... so racers have created a market for Lipo by choosing to use them at any meeting they could before any guideline written for the manufacturers to follow. I for one have done this.

With racers doing this, clubs and series have allowed Lipo, such as Worksop, NE indoor regionals, Broxtowe series etc. Clubs that try to dissallow Lipo have suffered, such as York early in winter (rules changed in the week before to avoid loosing attendance's), Kidderminster etc. Us, as racers, have forced them to be accepted at anything but BRCA sanctioned events.

So with the bad reputation Nimhs have created, racers have forced Lipo's in faster than the BRCA could hold an AGM. This isn't the fault of the BRCA or the manufacturer (or anyone to that matter), just unfortunate circumstances.

What should have happened, and we try to make happen, is the BRCA allow what we are currently using (use of a combination of sense and hindsight). At the AGM we were there in force, big attendance, we tried to write the rules to the letter there and then, but not allowed, we asked for some assurance the rules would be what we want - we got that assurance, but they are not what we want. We asked for the guideline & provisional list to be available early, this didn't happen either.

Soooo, what do we do? Well I am running stick cells currently in both my cars, so no issue for me. But how do we make our voice heard, we have tried and failed, so do we do it by bocotting the BRCA sanctioned events? well thats up to you, but if that happened it would force the people who don't listen to listen, the rules are written for us, without us there is no event.

Id like for there to be a series, perhaps at Blyth, clashing with nationals, and i'll happily attend (not due to the Lipo decision, but due to the choice of venue for 2009 national (my opinion only)). Perhaps a resurection of the Radio Race Car series?

well said chris
id like to see that!!

Originally Posted by ashleyb4

You can fit a stick pack lipo in a xx4 with a bit of modification.

But the BRCA rules are made to make the best for our sport the best compromise without rulling out any cars or cells but also having safety in mind. There will be saddle pack lipo's that fit cars dont worry about it the companys want to make money so they will make them.

A

go on then ash, by not allowing saddle pack cars to run lipo and with a cut off of the end of jan, how there going to be more saddles out?

your bit in bold, they HAVE ruled out cars and cells, if you wantto run lipo so bit of a daft statement

there is no longet a level playing field for all in off road in choice of cells, and definatly no fairness.
just hope this does not hurt 10th off road and put all this new blood coming in off

[ashleyb4]

Manafactures would have these details avaliable to them before we do so the chances are they will be able to to make legal lipo cells before the deadline and companys will do it to make money.

A

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by ashleyb4

Manafactures would have these details avaliable to them before we do so the chances are they will be able to to make legal lipo cells before the deadline and companys will do it to make money.

A

so ash in 25 days thay can have a cell sourced/made a case designed, mould made then manufacuted, the pack assembled and to the eb board in 25 days? is that what your saying?
we got the sizes the day after efra agm thats when they were made, how would manufactures get them earlier?

[Chrislong]

Originally Posted by ashleyb4

Manafactures would have these details avaliable to them before we do so the chances are they will be able to to make legal lipo cells before the deadline and companys will do it to make money.

A

Ash mate, your making an unjustified presumption which is wrong. The rules are released to all like they have been and thats it, there is no list written and kept from us for several weeks as everyone has been waiting for it - racers, shop and manufacturers.

[Northy]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

so ash in 25 days thay can have a cell sourced/made a case designed, mould made then manufacuted, the pack assembled and to the eb board in 25 days? is that what your saying?

Don't forget tested by the EB

G

[ashleyb4]

If they want the buisness they can do it in 25 days.

A

[Adam Skelding]

Originally Posted by ashleyb4

If they want the buisness they can do it in 25 days.

A

Come work for us if you can do it in 25 days

[ashleyb4]

The manafactures will know the ROAR EFRA and BRCA Lipo specifications before they are released to the general public its common sence. (Look it up on wiki if you dont know what it is)

A

[Chrislong]

Perhaps its not about just doing it, but lead time of changing production lines, modifying moulds, automated machinery - making, testing and passing samples before sending out to the EB - then before we get them, clearing out stock which overnight has become obsolete, modifying that stock and then packaging, and shipping it out to the shops (don't forget a lot of stuff is made oversea's).

25 days is not a lot of time.

[DCM]

I know of one or two people who make LiPo packs, and were waiting on the EFRA rules before even looking at making saddle lipo, as they see that, if made to EFRA, they will be accepted globaly, now, if the homologation list was left open, then great, but as everyone has said, above, 25 days just isn't enough time.

Chris, I agree, the only way you would force a rethink, is a complete bouycot of BRCA meetings. But I can't see that happening, as the top guys, it will be a contractual agreement.

[Chrislong]

It was only from top of my head, I hope nobody took that comment seriously . Although if that did happen, how many are contractually abliged to enter? Id loosely estimate on 20. If thats all that enter then it would be meaningless anyway, especially if there were 150 entries at a Schumacher/RRC/Joe Bloggs series. But its all theoretical and impossible in reality.

BUT, as a group if we make a stand in our mass's on any particular subject then we are this strong, as an individual or a small group we are not.

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by Chrislong

Perhaps its not about just doing it, but lead time of changing production lines, modifying moulds, automated machinery - making, testing and passing samples before sending out to the EB - then before we get them, clearing out stock which overnight has become obsolete, modifying that stock and then packaging, and shipping it out to the shops (don't forget a lot of stuff is made oversea's).

25 days is not a lot of time.

Absolutely right! Depending what materials they each use and how much is inhouse some may be able to remould cases quickly, but then they need to test case strength, potentially repackage all internals, and do all testing! Plus work out new unit costs going forward do they can price them! Then as Chris says removing stock/ordering new parts/packaging/sending to shops once they pass the EB!

On top of this, I imagine some of them outsource construction, you can't just ring a supplier and say "just shave a few mm off the cases from now on bud, cheers".

Plus, how big a Market is this? Do they make enough from saddle packs (or maybe stick packs too for TP) to justify all that??

[Mike Hudson]

I guess with 4wd it'll just be a race between a catsx, pred, x5 and a kyosho then The rest are screwed unless manufacturers perform a miracle... or the brca sorts something out like allow the current saddles currently available for a while until new ones are available that abide by all the rules.

[turbo_brick]

Can the BRCA make an exception to the rule for 1 year like ROAR have done to allow the saddle packs that are available now??

Then add packs over the year to make a rolling list of cells, then hopefully by next year there will be some available.

Peter