lipo saddle packs, a poll to show feelings

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

Hmm, so a saddle within dimensions needs to be produced, submitted, tested, and available in the uk? Can't see it being before Feb/March at the earliest, assuming they CAN make them to the specs.

Couple of quick questions, originally weren't the rules designed to be consistent with ROAR? But ROAR then have exceptions to allow certain saddles, so why don't the EB just match those exceptions? Or might that be covered by the list itself we keep being told to wait for? If not, why wait for the list, they won't add cells that don't meet the rules will they?

Finally, 08nimh cells are definitely still allowed aren't they? That list doesn't start from scratch? Cos I think I'm just gonna go back to nimh to not waste a whole winter setting up for Lipo weight!

so run your car at its nimh weight and have more time in the pits chatting with mates, .......................if you have any

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by SHY

Lots of sticks, but no saddles. SMC has made some which are the right "footprint" (not too long, see the EFRA post at http://www.oople.com/forums/showthre...t=15589&page=7), but then again too high... (also those are ROAR legal)

Note! Keep in mind that even if a commercially available battery "should" be allowed on the EB/EFRA battery list, it still has to go through the approval process. So it'll probably take a while.

Can someone link to the EB list for LiPos used for touring cars?

Personally I can't stop thinking about what Skelding pointed out: How are the manufacturers supposed to design a future chassis with two different sets of rules? EFRA, ROAR and IFMAR really should discuss this and end up with a common set of rules.

here you go Mr SHY

http://www.centralbooking.org/cbs/im...ipo2008-11.pdf

[SHY]

The EFRA 2008 rulebook states that the 2008 list plus all previous lists are still legal. So in 2009 you'll have the 2009 list, but the 2008 list will still be legal.

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by Gnarly Old Dog

Phew - just waded through the thread thus far - it was tough going but I made it - just.
Mark - Just what have you started

For my penny's worth:
1) Life without the BRCA is unimaginable (for me). Thus, for me, I'll support whatever the elected officers and volunteers who run our guiding body decide upon. I couldn't get to the AGM. I had my reasons but at the end of the day, I wasn't there and so I don't have or deserve a voice - end of. You guys who put in the hours and hours of hard work that often goes unnoticed and unthanked get my total respect and support.

2) One of the greatest ironies here is that we're all discussing the fine details of the financial risk being run by those who have purchased LiPo batteries before the rules have become established. So what! You guys have a head start on the others in terms of car set ups so you'll be faster than the others come next season to begin with - and anyway (maybe this is a bit tongue in cheek) I reckon most of these racers wouldn't bat an eyelid at having to renew their Nimhs each and every year at a far greater financial cost than the cost of 2 or 3 LiPos. So sell the 'alledgedly' illegal LiPos to club racers who won't be having their cars scrutineered every week to offset the replacement cost.

Mark's said it and so has Chris and many others but let's not knock the EB or the BRCA for their efforts. The list hasn't come out yet so everything is still speculation. I'm sure that Charlie, Jim, PW et al do have the best interests of the ENTIRE hobby/sport at heart and even though it may not be meant, it must feel at times to these guys that their efforts are largely going unnoticed and unwanted by the members and if it were me and I were in that position, I'd be saying stuff the lot of 'em and I'd walk away from the whole thing. That brings me back (eventually) to my 1st point above. No BRCA = an unimaginable future for the hobby/sport.

But I wasn't there on the 26th and so I'll sign my renewal form and agree to abide by the rules set down by the organisation and it's elected officers. Without fuss and without criticism. It is by far the best fifteen quid I spend every year.

With all of the emotions being typed out in this and other threads, this subject has the capacity to destroy rather than create. Right now, lets all get together and support / promote our hobby/sport - lets not destroy it from within.

I shall probably regret ever writing this or clicking on the submit post button - but here goes...

What this man said!!!!

If it means that there is a stable set of regulations in place that everybody can read and understand the limitations they outline then that is just fine by me.
Winter season is becoming "the great cell debate session" and to be honest I consider anybody who buys before the list is availble a bit foolish and for those who had to buy as they had no cells left a little unfortunate. I was in the last group last year, having to replace all my packs in October or not race the winter at all ..... a pain in the ass yes but compared to not racing no big shakes.Surely those with the "big" Lipos will continue to get use out of them at club meetings or pass them on to drivers unaffected by the "legal" list as they don't race regional / national events as happened with many cells at the beginning of this year!

[racingdwarf]

I run a club in the EOE and our club supports the EOE regional series. My club has permitted the use of lipos for the last two years, as have many of the other clubs in the region, we have done this as this is what members wanted......and WE NEED MEMBERS. Most have bought trackpower 3200's as the are a good price,fit in most 4wd,s easly and so far compaired to cells have been very safe.

What worries me is if the BRCA decide these batterys are not legal all who have them will just say "Oh well sod the regionals then" I will just race at club, we only need about 6-8 people to think this and 4wd regionals wont be worth running round here, And if those same people want to use the same batterys in there 2wd that will be the end of that two. Are there any other region's with this problem?

We already have someone running a championship series next year in the region that lipos are legal in, so were do you think all would go?

[DCM]

I think, what people are flabergasted about, is how slow the EB is at getting up-to-date. We all understand the needs for rules, but to not expand the rules, which is only adding a set of extra dimensions to cover the use of saddles, will rule out a lot of people from racing. Now, when you consider, far more people run at club and regional level, where clubs may use the BRCA rules explicitley, what do the clubs do then. I know what they will, they will do as the members desire. And this is what, within reason, the EB should be doing. Otherwise, the only cars that CAN accept lipo will be the Schumacher, Tamiya DB-01, X5 and maybe one or two more.

[mobile chicane]

I moved onto lipo a while ago as I was fed up of nimh packs dropping cells and dumping randomly.

I think the brca aproved lipos should be allowed at all brca events, the list seems to be growing but saddle packs are still very mutch in the minotity.

+ you will always have cars with odd cell configurations that just cant run lipo.

[mark christopher]

Dave
one of the reasons for my poll

i want to do regionals and get an F grading after 2 years of indoors, looks like ill pick a club serries and wait for another year.

[dan_kitty]

Originally Posted by racingdwarf

What worries me is if the BRCA decide these batterys are not legal all who have them will just say "Oh well sod the regionals then" I will just race at club, we only need about 6-8 people to think this and 4wd regionals wont be worth running round here, And if those same people want to use the same batterys in there 2wd that will be the end of that two. Are there any other region's with this problem?

I see your point and really hope it doesnt come to that

clubs in south wales are booming at the moment and we could potentially have a good summer regional series next year, I would hate to think it could possibly be stunted...

although i would be prepared to lend out some nimhs to who ever needs them

[bert digler]

just a quick question was the trakpower the first saddle pack on the market if so it would become a standard

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by bert digler

just a quick question was the trakpower the first saddle pack on the market if so it would become a standard

im not sure if it was THE 1st as maxamps also had one around the same time i am sure trakpowers was the first proper hard cased one,
the thing is no one yet seems to have one within the "rules" considering we are talking around 1 or 2mm and you have two extra case ends over the stick dimensions........................................ .......

[bert digler]

its a bag of worms which needs sorting as a lot of drivers will not not be competing at brca events next year if its not rectified in recent financial times i think a little flexibility would solve the problem as they dont breach the capacity rule and therefore no clear advantage

[mark christopher]

i would prefer to run at BRCA meetings than clubs, and in no way do i wish to see the BRCA senctioned events loose out but i have to go with my kit and financial situation of 10th ic nationals and buggy regionals (if i can do them)

[bert digler]

i think orion have 5300 nimh on the way but it hasnt been released yet i here but to be honest its pointless with lipo as all we want is cheap accessable racing to all brushless lipo goes a long way towards this as previously stated isnt the brca aim is to promote the sport not stiffle it with red tape for budding racers

[jcb]

What amazes me is the amount of people that all of a sudden have had cells pack up so have had to go out and buy something new to race over winter before the legal list is created. I never heard that many doing it with NIMh's at the end of the 2007 season, then moaning that the cells bought weren't legal for 2008. So why is there such an issue going from 08 to 09

On a slight side note for the racer on a really tight budget that wants to do regionals or nationals I can see a small problem but then I go back to what I have written above.

or

Perhaps it's just that I am not that fussed over it all as no matter what I do I'll never get LIPO's in one of my cars

[mark christopher]

it that down the the make of car?

[TheRacePlace]

It seems to me trakpower build a cell to fit the car there were no regulations at the time on dimensions so they made it to fit the cars,by default that size would be similar to nimh pack dimension, currently it is the only hard cased saddle available, we then say we want to use them and some bright spark says ok but they must be this size which makes the only cell out there unusable!!. you cannot argue that the manufacturers should have made them to the correct specification as there wasn't one!, they made them to the only spec required ie they fit the cars.

i did try to point this out prior to the AGM and thought common sense would prevail.

its not difficult thing surely. we simply propose to relax the size rule on saddle configuration packs until 2010, problem solved or does something that simple cause a problem!!
john

[jcb]

yep!! I looked into buying a new car and LIPO's and couldn't warrant the change over costs.

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

so run your car at its nimh weight and have more time in the pits chatting with mates, .......................if you have any

Hey, I want the Trakpower allowed as it's the easiest solution for me! But, I don't want to spend the winter setting up around Lipo just to then not be able to use them!

Originally Posted by jcb

What amazes me is the amount of people that all of a sudden have had cells pack up so have had to go out and buy something new to race over winter before the legal list is created. I never heard that many doing it with NIMh's at the end of the 2007 season, then moaning that the cells bought weren't legal for 2008. So why is there such an issue going from 08 to 09

On a slight side note for the racer on a really tight budget that wants to do regionals or nationals I can see a small problem but then I go back to what I have written above.

or

Perhaps it's just that I am not that fussed over it all as no matter what I do I'll never get LIPO's in one of my cars

My cells went down last winter too, I bought 07 cells second hand to run in the indoor finals, just to see them change the rules at the last minute so I could have just got my 08 cells instead! That's why I am not confident of an early solution to it this year, having been caught out last time!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

Hey, I want the Trakpower allowed as it's the easiest solution for me! But, I don't want to spend the winter setting up around Lipo just to then not be able to use them!

i understand, my set ups have not changed as an average club racer, i still crash as much