LiPo packs and overall weight .....

[c0sie]

I think alot of people believe that a lighter car will equate to faster laps, but in offroad id imagine that isnt wholey true?

Personally I think LiPo is the future, and that within time NiMh's will be so old hat that no one will bother with them....however until such a time its only fair that each car shares the same weight limit?

In all honesty Cragg, Maifield, Pidge would still kick nearly all our butts if they were running 3300 NiCad's to our 4900 LiPo's lol

[RogerM]

So who are the 5 other people who also said "Yes, of course they should"?

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by RogerM

So who are the 5 other people who also said "Yes, of course they should"?

so you have done a poll and dont know how to use it

click the number of votes to reveal who vote what

[Chrislong]

Lipo is lighter, if we need to add lead to get to minimum BRCA weight then there is no issue, we just do it. Some Lipo users may choose to lead up beyond that to suit them, thats choice, choice is good.

Car with Nimh tends to be far heavier than BRCA minimum, but some cars aren't. Thats life.

If you wanted Lipo to have to be weighted up to a Nimh Car, then thats way above BRCA Minimum and it won't happen as a rule, so heres a new concept for you Roger...... you ought to have had this discussion 6 months ago, proposed a revised BRCA weight for the 2008 AGM, then attended it. Its the way things are done. I would guess it wouldn;t be passed as our weights limits are consistent with Efra and we want them to continue to match.

Roger, if you want to try a pack of Lipo for a meeting at Worksop then I'll lend you one & will even take care of charging it for you.

Chris

[Chrislong]

I bet you'll find those who clicked the top option didn't understand the question. Except you Roger.

[Adam Skelding]

The packs themselves don't need to be ballasted. Just the cars.
The question is a touch ambiguous. I think I may have clicked the wrong poll, but I know what I meant.

The rules are out there for everyone to follow. The minimum mass rule should still stand. It then provides a level playing field on basic length, width, height and mass, to make sure we are all racing the same 'scale' of car.

Most cars out there at the moment are way over the minimum limit in 4wd. It's then down to the owner to either get their car to minimum mass or back to the old mass that they were used to.

I looking forward to running LiPo for the first time at York this weekend. To find out what the fuss is about. I'm not sure which way to go with adding mass, but I plan on throwing it down and giving it full stick from the off!

[c0sie]

Guys, give Rog a break.

I didnt know you could find out who selected what in each poll option either...

The poll question is valid in my opinion, whether Rog likes or dislikes LiPo is not the point..

Let the discussion roll and the BS stop.

[Edit]: However, following on from the point Adam made about the ambiguous wording, I would have chosen 'balance to the chassis' rather than 'Yes!'

[Wraggy]

Originally Posted by Adam Skelding

but I plan on throwing it down and giving it full stick from the off!

no change there then Adam !!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by c0sie

Guys, give Rog a break ffs!

I didnt know you could find out who selected what in each poll option - bite me.

The poll question is valid in my opinion, whether Rog likes or dislikes LiPo is not the point..

Let the discussion roll and the BS stop cos it gets boring after a while.

[Edit]: However, following on from the point Adam made about the ambiguous wording, I would have chosen 'balance to the chassis' rather than 'Yes!'

ok so where is his choice of run cars to current brca weight (mass for adam ) limits

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Adam Skelding

The packs themselves don't need to be ballasted. Just the cars.
The question is a touch ambiguous. I think I may have clicked the wrong poll, but I know what I meant.

The rules are out there for everyone to follow. The minimum mass rule should still stand. It then provides a level playing field on basic length, width, height and mass, to make sure we are all racing the same 'scale' of car.

Most cars out there at the moment are way over the minimum limit in 4wd. It's then down to the owner to either get their car to minimum mass or back to the old mass that they were used to.

I looking forward to running LiPo for the first time at York this weekend. To find out what the fuss is about. I'm not sure which way to go with adding mass, but I plan on throwing it down and giving it full stick from the off!

adam im not your sort of level driver (well i can match your full stick, but thats all ) all i did to my d4 was to addd
a strip of lead under the rear prop shaft, (also helps locate the packs) seems to work for me

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

ok so where is his choice of run cars to current brca weight (mass for adam ) limits

Second option mate ..... "No, let them run light"

I admit the wording was a touch vague and the tone some what light hearted but that was the intention of the post! A light hearted discussion from which there would be no consequence!!


Chris (Long)

thanks for the offer of the loan of a pack to try, much appreciated. I won't be taking you up on the offer due to not doing any of the Worksop rounds (over 2.5 hours travelling each way for me).
I have run a borrowed LiPo in my own RB5, both with and without a 150g ballast plate under the pack so have, admittedly limited, experience of them. I really don't like the power delivery (then again I am still not 100% sold on brushless motors power delivery either). I personally prefer a mild brushed motor in my 2wd, something like a 14x3 BRM "geared tup" to quote Mr Ward himself.
Before somebody asks I always used to run 12x2 or 13x2 in 4wd and 14x3 or 15x3 in 2wd (last time I ran electric the top cells were 3300s).
All personal preference.


As for the whole propose to the BRCA and attend the AGM thing I would of if I really cared hugely ...... As I said before, this was just meant to be a light hearted debate to gauge opinions ..... nothing more than that!!!

[Chris Doughty]

reading between the lines Roger, what you want is everyone to have a heavy car that you have to put a lot of maintenance into, a motor and battery combo that starts out punchy and after about 3 minutes starts to loose punch and almosts dumps at 5:20 ??

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by DoughtyUK.net

reading between the lines Roger, what you want is everyone to have a heavy car that you have to put a lot of maintenance into, a motor and battery combo that starts out punchy and after about 3 minutes starts to loose punch and almosts dumps at 5:20 ??

Sounds good to me mate!!!!! LOL


In all seriousness I can really see the advantages of LiPo on the ease of running front. I love that about brushless motors, just need to find the right one for me.


As I said, the reason for this poll is to see what people thought about the idea, nothing more!

[Chris Doughty]

the way I see it, we have BRCA minimum weight limits in place, that very few people are bothered about even getting close to, why is that going to change when we put a different shape battery in the car.

if you did find yourself a good LiPo and brushless combo you would have the same power through the whole run and you would not have to constantly adjust your driving style during the run as you loose a bit of punch or your brakes go a bit soft as your brushed motor overheats and the brushes burn up...

[sly]

Originally Posted by DoughtyUK.net

reading between the lines Roger, what you want is everyone to have a heavy car that you have to put a lot of maintenance into, a motor and battery combo that starts out punchy and after about 3 minutes starts to loose punch and almosts dumps at 5:20 ??

Ill add to you post,

He would like to ask everyone to slow down and give him a chance of racing with people so they do not to beat him proberly every race. And hold our hobby back for moving forward (lipo, brushless, safety, driving pleasure and the rest of the world) and making it less accessible for new racers to enjoy track time.

I rememeber having to weight my car up with 2400/3000mah nimh to make the min weight at BRCA events some time back, so what is the difference now?

Racing to me is a social and fun day out, so the more time on track the better, more time to relax and catch up with my mates the better, less time having to skim/clean/check a brushed motor the better.

I`m bewildered at the point your trying to make!!!

[Tom3012]

The point about lipos "filtering" down into little jonny's hands... Havent they done that already? i bought a little helicopter the other day (great fun!) thats lipo powered?

Mobile phones, same kind of thing... (anyone remember nokia doing a massive recall on a batch of their batteries as they were likely to burst into flames )

Im all for lipo, finally i can save money on batteries!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by RogerM

Second option mate ..... "No, let them run light"

I admit the wording was a touch vague and the tone some what light hearted but that was the intention of the post! A light hearted discussion from which there would be no consequence!!


Chris (Long)

thanks for the offer of the loan of a pack to try, much appreciated. I won't be taking you up on the offer due to not doing any of the Worksop rounds (over 2.5 hours travelling each way for me).
I have run a borrowed LiPo in my own RB5, both with and without a 150g ballast plate under the pack so have, admittedly limited, experience of them. I really don't like the power delivery (then again I am still not 100% sold on brushless motors power delivery either). I personally prefer a mild brushed motor in my 2wd, something like a 14x3 BRM "geared tup" to quote Mr Ward himself.
Before somebody asks I always used to run 12x2 or 13x2 in 4wd and 14x3 or 15x3 in 2wd (last time I ran electric the top cells were 3300s).
All personal preference.


As for the whole propose to the BRCA and attend the AGM thing I would of if I really cared hugely ...... As I said before, this was just meant to be a light hearted debate to gauge opinions ..... nothing more than that!!!

i voted that one but it read to me no weight limit, but was nearest to my thoughts.

rog i run a nosram 7.5 in my b4 and its ace, so smooth, huge power band and good top end and punch

[Chrislong]

Roger if you are coming to any events where I am, I don't mind lending a Lipo, whereever it is mate.

I run brushless, and for Lipo I have motored down by 2 winds, the cars are as quick. But like mentioned the Lipo means that no power fade, no problem in the pits - what I really like is no soldering, no more battery jigs, no more equalising (granted there is balance charging but thats of no effort).

If the rules were made so the current weights were lifted 100g to suit Nimhs more, then id have no issue with weighting up to suit. As it is I still have to weight up slightly for the rules, but again, I don't mind. I expect some Nimh cars to be as light as the current weight limits, although I know the majority won't be. I may find a heavier car is more suitable for me, if so I'll weight it up beyond the weight limit - its all trial and error.

Chris

[super__dan]

Rog lol I’m here now. Can’t really be arsed to reply to a lot of it but you must admit it does sound like a whine that if you’re on Nimhs this year you’re at a massive disadvantage due to weight, something most of us do not believe is true. I’d also say that for all kinds of reasons playing fields are never level and I’d consider any possible advantage (or disadvantage) to be a relatively small one when you consider it could be negated by buying a lipo and charger (if someone felt that put out) which is very achievable for less than £100.

Also to say in the minimal testing I’ve done so far with Lipo, I don’t understand what you mean by their power delivery, it’s nothing motoring down doesn’t fix surely? I’m running a Novak 8.5R motor at Worksop mostly in 2wd which is quality, VERY smooth indeed. I have to admit when I get one I’ll be going to a 7.5L motor for a little more top end (but identical bottom end) which I imagine will then be a fit and forget motor in the same way my 6.5L has become fit and forget in the 4wd since going to Lipo.

This is going off point slightly but I really can’t say enough about how much I enjoy Lipo and brushless as a package, from the point of view of how much more social racing is now due to extra time. Even at Worksop running both cars I have loads of time for general banter with everyone. I must also admit to being an early doors sceptic over both things (borderline Ludite) but am now 100% happy now to admit any initial scepticism was wrong. This is potentially more down to brushless to be fair but Lipo plays it’s part. Twice at York I got a wave of panic thinking I’d not rushed to get cells on and equalising as soon as I got there to be charged for round 1 only to remember I had 2 packs of Lipo charged which I could potentially do all night on without even needing to re-peak.

[RogerM]

You took your time Dan ... LOL

Sorry if it sounded like a whine, was just meant to start a debate nothing more!


You are probably right when you say about motoring down but that is only an option if you have the motors available to do so. What I mean buy this, assuming brushless now, is if your already running a 7.5 and want to motor down then you only have a choice of LRP / Nosram 8.5s or the Losi 8.5 then "Spec" class motors (LRP / Nosram, Speed Passion and Novak).

The other thing that confusses me is people can not state a major advantage of LiPo being cost effectiveness (I am refering to earlier posts not yours Dan') if they then have to buy new kit to work with it.
Simple sums;

LiPo £50ish, charger to suit £50ish, 2 new motors to suit 2x£65 = £230
3 x NiMh packs @ £36 each (based on Stormforce prices, not looked at others) = £108

Now I know that a lot of hardened racers buy new stuff each season so this doesn't apply to them. Also I know people might have to replace a pack or two mid season which would add cost. There are also people out there who are looking forward to the 3rd season on there 3700s and original 1-star motor. The sums above are intended as example only.


Again I feel the need to state that I am not anti-LiPo and just playing devil's advocate to further discussion.

I know that it applies to very few, if any, of the regulars to this site but I do get the feelling sometimes if having a pink fur covered bodyshell was the "next big" thing they wouldn't be able to keep up with the production of fake fur!!


All this has gone a little off topic.

The orginal question was basically do people feel disadvantaged by the fact that LiPo runners could have a relatively large weight advantage to NiMh runners? I think the results so far speak for them selves!!