F1 GP SPA

[SlowOne]

Spot on Terry. Instead of whining away on here, where the impact is about as much as a wet sponge tapped on a pane of bullet-proof glass, has anyone bothered to write to the FIA, or FOM, or anyone else in authority?

Who's written to the BBC and ITV and said they won't watch? Who's written to any of the Teams and said you won't buy merchandise? If you want things changed, hit them where it hurts. And this is not a forum (with due respects to Mr. and Mrs. Oople!) with anywhere near enough influence to change anything.

Terry, what odds are you offering for your predicted outcome? If they're reasonable, I'll take some action!

[AmiSMB]

You can petition here:-

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe...ed.cgi?belgp08

[phil c]

signed , hope it works

[rcfan]

Originally Posted by Southwell

Where was he to go? If he breaked he would of probably lost his wing.

Hm, admitting I´m somewhat of a ferrari fanboy (although not that much anymore since schumacher left) I think the penalty is ok. It´s too hard no question, but imho hamilton did indeed gain an advantage. Raikonnen was in the lead and so in the right to defend his line and position. The one behind him has to care for himself an make sure not to crash the leading car. So Hamilton should have breaked and not crash into kimi. Which is whar he did. But imagine there was a wall and he couldn´t cut the schicane. He would have lost a lot of time because his overtaking attempt failed. Well in this case there was the possibility to cut and he did gain time and not loose time. And only because of this he was in the position to overtake,

So I think 10 seconds or so would have been a good penalty. Putting him on 3rd place is like disqualifying him and ruining a teriffic race.

[telboy]

The one behind him has to care for himself an make sure not to crash the leading car

You mean like Kimi did to Hamilton when they got to the hairpin?

The wall thing is not really a valid point, as I'm sure if the track was lined with walls, then I think Kimi would have given more room, knowing that he could also take himself out of the race if he did that sort of manouvre. He knew Hamilton could take to the run off area, which is why he squeezed him out.

[matdodd]

Hamilton was the faster car in the conditions he was on Raikonnen & it was a fair attempt at a pass, yes he cut the corner but how many times has that happened in GP's with out a penalty! He let Raikonnen through & was 4 mph slower than him across the line so he had no advantage other than bigger balls into the next corner! Where he simply braked later & then got hit which doesn't matter as it was a red car that did something wrong. F1 is a joke & totally corrupt.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by niggs98

think itv, bbc and sky should get together and not even bother bidding for the rights to show it next time the contract comes up for renewal, lets see what the fia think of that when there is noone to watch it and noone to sponser it.

That's kind of what's happened. ITV have cancelled their contract with F1 two years early, which is why Bernie has had no choice but to give it to the BBC for next year as it has to be on terrestrial TV for the sake of the sponsors. The idiots still paid for it though.


Well great, Hamiltons offence was "Breach of Article 30.3" which states "During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track" so Mclaren can't really appeal as it's obvious to all that he left the track - but then so did most of the field at some point including Raikonnen going the long way round Pouillon on the runoff which clearly gained him an advantage.

Lewis "Cut the chicane and gained an advantage", which he then immediately gave back. Don't know why some people in F1 forums suggest Lewis would have been 4 car lengths behind Raikonnen if he'd followed him through the chicane when Kimi was driving like an old woman in the rain - if Lewis had followed him he would more likely have nailed the back of Kimis car than seen Kimi pull away. I still can't understand where you gain an advantage by slowing down to let the car past compared with accelerating up to it from behind - if Lewis had stayed behind he would have been even faster into la Source.

Yet Raikonnen hasn't been investigated for the much more dangerous move passing Hamilton under yellows when they came across Rosbergs car coming back on to the track, nor for the two moves in front of Hamilton when trying to block him.

I think I'll go watch WWE, at least they don't pretend the result isn't fixed.

[niggs98]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

That's kind of what's happened. ITV have cancelled their contract with F1 two years early, which is why Bernie has had no choice but to give it to the BBC for next year as it has to be on terrestrial TV for the sake of the sponsors. The idiots still paid for it though.
.

what a shame the bbc didnt have the balls to just say no we cant be bothered with it. bernie and his team would of been kicked straight out and f1 would of then been given the shake up it needed to become fun again rather than a follow the leader and show of a nice car precession that it has become.

bring back the old banger racing opps i mean touring cars, at least that was fun to watch

[mattym0310]

Originally Posted by Kopite

He may not have got the penalty if he just followed Raikonnen through the next hairpin, then bizzed past him after. It was probably cos he was closer behind Raikonnen than he would've been normally, which gave a greater opportunity to outbrake Kimi into the hairpin. And who's to say that Kimi would've crashed out if that incident hadn't occured?

I'm not saying it's still right to dish out a penalty, and i'm sure you'll all start having a go at me for saying it, but they are valid points.

Either way, you're all right, the sport is corrupt

I agree, Hamilton did get an advantage because by the time kimi had got passed him they were going pretty much the same speed and so Hamilton had no ground to make up coming out of the corner as he would if he followed the ferrari through.
Hamiltons overtake going into the hairpin was a great manouveur, but if he had just waited until after turn one I think he would have got away penalty free. It's a real shame because Hamilton drove a great race catching Kimi up and overtaking him/battling on the penultimate lap. It was a really good race to watch but all this business with the stewards has some what ruined it.
All this said, Hamiltons penalty was unfair to say the least. As Terry said, Ferrari did more than enough things eligible for penaltys yet because they drive red cars they dont get one! They shoudln't have taken Hamiltons win from him!

All the points about Charlie and how he said it was alright, it isn't charlies decision which is final. As Ron Dennis said in his interview, he asked charlie and knew that this would only be as a guide line.

[mattym0310]

I was wrong about my last comment regarding Charlie and the stewards reassuring mclaren

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008...ton.formulaone

[telboy]

The thing is, its all irrelevant as hamilton would have got past raikonen anyway, so I think its just sour grapes by ferrari who lost the race..1. because Kimi piled it into the barrier...and 2. Massa just wasn't fast enough when the rain came.

Ferrari knew it would be to Lewis's advantage if it rained, so they got the face on when they lost and had the repair bill for Kimi's car from kwik-fit!

Hopefully Mclaren will have already put all the facts above on paper to take to court with them, and hopefully get it overturned.

[twisty]

Blatently cut n pasted from another forum
-------------------------------------------

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[glypo]

Twisty that is awesome


Nice find

[telboy]

Sweet.

That basically explains how the 'FIA' have run F1 since the 70's.
Wicked.

[bigoggy]

twisty that is abolute genious. . also signed the petition

[phil c]

twisty that is exelent , and unfortunately true

[TRIOXER]

never a truer word spoken in jest!

[DCM]

I read the ITV-F1 take on it, and without saying it, they have basicaly said that the FIA have unintentionaly(intentionaly) made themselves look corrupt, that McClaren had twice asked race control if they are happy with what Hamilton has done, and agreed he gave enough to be within the rules.

But the juxt of it is, that they can't say whether or not that Hamilton gained an advantage, as when they crossed the line, Raikonen was 4MPH faster, and witht he changing grip levels, did hamilton have enough to make the move, as these are all what-ifs, the course marshals didn't have a reason to judge on something that couldn't be judged... leaving the FIA looking like it was favouring.....

Plot writers would be wealthy if they could think this stuff up

[gazbaz2]

Hammy was the faster driver, especialy when it started to rain, the fact of the matter is that ok hammy got in front when he was pushed into the "run off", but he then slowed down to let him pass then chased and over took him, and doing that it shows hammy was quicker and the car was better in the wet than kimi's,
LOL, and anyway kimi put his into the barrier lol which i thought was absolutely class
Massa won on default, although massa was driving very well like i must say

[telboy]

So basically they had no idea and no proof as to wether or not hamilton had an advantage.

...so they gave him a penalty anyway.


It just does your haed in, cos when ferrari broke the rules last time out (and I'd consider theirs as being more dangerous...ei. the pit lane thing..oh and they actually ran one of their own pit crew over too!) the stewards were considering a 10 place drop for the next race. Leaving them with the win that they had just achieved...but it ended up being a 10,000 fine for massa.

They should have said 'yes, hamilton gained an advantage so we'll give him a 10 or 5 place drop for the next grid'. It would have attracted a lot less attention to the corruptness of the penalty system.