Independant vehicle repairers EU legisation

[notlawnomis]

Hi all, thought this might be of interest to you guys, apologies if its already been posted elsewhere!!

Simon

The EU commission has decided that independent car repair centres are "A Bad Thing" and intend to ensure that only Main Dealers and Authorised franchised outlets can repair your vehicle from 2010 so,for example Halfords/Nationwide Autocentres/Kwik fit etc. and your local trusted inependent garage will not be able to look after your car(s). Forget the reputations-good or bad-of these outlets. What is important is Your right to choose where You take your car for servicing/repairs is going to be taken away.

http://www.r2rc.co.uk/home/content/view/27/97/

[MatJohnson]

Not an awefull lot of facts in that article but still (it reads a bit too marketing style for me), I hope it doesn't happen though.

[mark christopher]

seeing as i work in a dealership i hope it does happen,there are some good independents out there but there are more cowboys. Independants dont have the gear or knowledge for todays modern cars.
Why should mnufactures be forced to warranty cars not serviced by thier dealers?

[MRD]

My Dad took his 12mth old Zafira GSI to a proper Vauxhall dealer for its first service, when we wnt to pick it up just as we got there it came screaming into the yard with two young 'service engineers' in it. The brakes were red hot and there was dirt sprayed down the side where it had been wheel spun. I went mental with the guy in charge but he said they were just 'testing' it. The brakes squealed on the way home so we rung them and they said the couldn't see anything on the CCTV from the yard but they would sort the brakes as a good will gesture. Not all main dealers are reputable .

[leeleefocus]

My local Ford dealer tried to rip me off by telling me that i needed a new airbag control module but i told them no so they said they would do one for half price i said no. This is after i took the car in for something that did not affect the airbag module and they said it was broken. After a stern word with a few of them a couple of minutes later the module fixed itself(fixed itself yea right)

The car was being worked on and i got a phone call asking if they had the go ahead to replace it so i was down there like a shot to sort it out. While i was waiting I could hear them phoning people and telling them that while they were working on there car they found something wrong and did they have the go ahead to fix it. Maybe they were genuine problems but who knows after what they tried with me.

I've not been back since.

Some main dealers are excellent and some independent centers are excellent it's just trying to find them.

[bodgit]

Agree with MRD above. A lad at out old track did some work experience with a ford garage in chester and went out to "test a car" he said they screamed the balls off it

[DCM]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

seeing as i work in a dealership i hope it does happen,there are some good independents out there but there are more cowboys. Independants dont have the gear or knowledge for todays modern cars.
Why should mnufactures be forced to warranty cars not serviced by thier dealers?

The only bit of that, that makes any sense, is the Warranty, otherwise, the rest of it is a complete and utter loads of bollox. You are just as likely, if you don't know what you are doing, to be ripped off at the dealer, as you are at a local garage. I have had run-ins with both main dealers and local, and the local dealer was far easier to sort out.

As for equipment, most if not all new cars have the ubiquitous OBDII diagnostics on board, most garages have the tools to read them, and most reputable garages have the tools to repair the new cars.

Where dealers fall down, is when they change 'dealerships' in the area, like Chrysler have done, closed down their BIG dealership, and gone with a smaller one, so the chances that the mechs have the same knowledge as a longed served dealer, just falls through too.

You have the information, cars are just nuts, bolts, fluids and wires, the difference is, how much £££ per hour you pay, and as far as I am concerned, most garages rip you off, to a point!

[Spoolio]

At the end of the day it's down to the ethics and the morality of the dealer and they are all different. I accept that a lot of the old school dealers that started off as small family business started off with huge amounts of customer service. They had to do this to survive - and possibly get over the stigma attached to the brand eg, Toyota in the 70's and Skoda in the 80's - and many of them still have this culture flowing through the business.

However, on the flip side there are plenty of big chain dealers out there and the aforementioned smaller dealers who had to "go large" at the behest of their manufacturers (or who have seen management and staff changes through old age) and as soon as they start seeing volume of customers as the primary profit generator rather than generating customer loyalty and hence repeat business, that is where it all goes bums up for the punter.

In the early 70's my neighbour - a well to do bloke - had an Austin 1800 and replaced it yearly with another and another and another gradually upgrading as he went on. This was not because the car was particularly good - it wasn't - but they weren't that bad and the point was the dealer did give a monkeys and always made him feel like he mattered. This all trucked along nicely until BL told the dealer to "upgrade" it's franchise to push their exciting new-era products rather than the older BMC stuff. They expanded the showroom, diluted the customer service and things went down the crapper, much as they did for the manufacturer themselves much a few decades on. He went and bought a new BMW 316 2-door in 1978 and was once again welcomed by a dealer that cared (it was very much a developing marque back then). I dare say that most BMW dealers now are in the same position as my neighbour experienced with British Leyland in 1978, and were he alive he'd probably be looking at a Kia.

The point is all dealers are different and in my own experience they love you until the ink has dried on the purchase order and the cooling off period has expired on the finance, then you are yesterdays news. If you want another car off them thats great but if not no great worry as there'll be another punter along in a minute. How many dealers honestly ring customers 2 months in and check they are happy with their purchase, and keep them "warm" through the lifecycle of the car?

I once took my then new MX5 to a dealer in Mansfield (now closed) for a service as the dealer in Nottingham I bought it from had shut it's doors about 6 months before. About half a mile from the garage I was overtaken by a ballistic Mazda Demio - not what comes to mind when you think of ballistic is it - cutting in and out of traffic on the dual carriageway and bouncing off the limiter at each shift. I'd like to say I was surprised when it pulled in to the service car park of the dealers and a spotty yoof wearing Mazda overalls got out but that would be a lie. I just went in to the service reception and told them that I was cancelling my service as I did not feel confident that they would treat my car in the same manner I would, the service managers response was "it's only a car mate, it won't hurt it".

The whole "warranty" thing is little more than legalised blackmail anyway. As DCM says, a car is just a collection of bits, its the info that has the value and in many cases even that is just good ol' common sense. If I have a choice I'd rather have my car serviced by a non-franchised "independent" who has 20 years experience and a good name in the area rather than a fly-by-night-cheap-as-chips outfit or a main dealer who can plug in a code reader to an OBDII port but hasn't got a clue what tappet clearances are. As long as they use manufacturer parts and specced fluids I'm happy.

I shall spare you the saga that took place when I tried to get a "dealer only" part for my '94 Mini from the just upgraded Godfrey Davis Rover dealer. "Mini? Nah mate".

Just my two penneth.

[DCM]

My brother has had lots of fun being diddled at Mercedes Dealers too, usually on fluids that never needed topping up, but somehow, they would still manage to get a couple of litres of pure gold in there!! Oh, and the time he had to have some accident repair done by them, and they got more paint on the windows, than they did the car.

So to be honest, if you have a mechanic you know and trust, use them, my local one has left the garage he was running, so I no longer use it.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by DCM

The only bit of that, that makes any sense, is the Warranty, otherwise, the rest of it is a complete and utter loads of bollox. You are just as likely, if you don't know what you are doing, to be ripped off at the dealer, as you are at a local garage. I have had run-ins with both main dealers and local, and the local dealer was far easier to sort out.

As for equipment, most if not all new cars have the ubiquitous OBDII diagnostics on board, most garages have the tools to read them, and most reputable garages have the tools to repair the new cars.

Where dealers fall down, is when they change 'dealerships' in the area, like Chrysler have done, closed down their BIG dealership, and gone with a smaller one, so the chances that the mechs have the same knowledge as a longed served dealer, just falls through too.

You have the information, cars are just nuts, bolts, fluids and wires, the difference is, how much £££ per hour you pay, and as far as I am concerned, most garages rip you off, to a point!

disagree on two points otherwise the independants would not ring us up and say what cope P1089 mean? or there machines give em a code and the wrong description,
ask em to fit a towbar to a new mondeo, they can but they carnt alter the central car configuration so the electronics knows its fitted!

as your local guy to expalin how fords smart charge works or even tell you about the canbus and linbus networks!

[DCM]

Not being funny, but all you would need, is for an 'ex-ford-mechanic' to be working for you, but for the most part, an independant garage can do most if not all the work, for a lower cost, and once you are out of warranty, don't need to use OEM parts.

You could even say, the argument you give, above, is Ford actually trying to make the cars only dealer repair only, thats monopoly isn't it?

[jim76]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

seeing as i work in a dealership i hope it does happen,there are some good independents out there but there are more cowboys. Independants dont have the gear or knowledge for todays modern cars.
Why should mnufactures be forced to warranty cars not serviced by thier dealers?

i'd be inclined to say that you are more likely to get a cowboy dealership as they fix things that don't need doing just to cover their overheads.
I took my old focus in for a service and was quoted £400+ for new front and rear brake disks. Said no thanks, took it to an independant who said there was over 15000 miles left on the disks so bring it back in 12 months. He did them for £70.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

Reading most of the replies has anyone actually read what this is about?



The EU actually wants the opposite to this, which is why they introduced the Block Exemption in the first place. The current Block Exemption which will run out in 2010 is the 2002 extension of the original Block Exemption introduced in 1995.

In fact the EU wants to continue with a new Block Exemption, tightening it up further by preventing manufacturers from anti-competitive practices, for example the manufacturers would no longer be able to withhold technical information that should be readily available to the independents, such as:Thanks Mark for the quote

Here's a thought, if anyone asks what has the EU ever done for us they've stopped us being held to ransom by the main dealers.

Originally Posted by mark christopher

that ex ford tech will want a good pay rate though and the way cars are advancing your soon out of touch, i worked for vw a few years back im lost on em now! the year out of ford took some catching up

no monopoly at all for will sell your thier diag machine £5K thier special tools and you can even attend ford courses at thier training centre.

come on play fair, if your going to qoute me, qoute all the relevent info ford will sell you all the gear and train you, just the independants dont spend the money like dealers do, hence they dont know the product but can charge a lower rate.

[phil c]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

come on play fair, if your going to qoute me, qoute all the relevent info ford will sell you all the gear and train you, just the independants dont spend the money like dealers do, hence they dont know the product but can charge a lower rate.

That may be true for some but me and my buisness partners have spent over twenty five grand on diag gear ( vw merc and BMW plus snap on Modas ) to name a few plus we are all ATA regestered master technicians ( all ex main dealer techs) who got fed up of getting crap pay £11 per hour when they charged me out at £135 per hour ! And the workman ship of some techs at the dealer was appaling, my 5 year old would do a better job. !!!

[Mini-JT]

....

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by jim76

i'd be inclined to say that you are more likely to get a cowboy dealership as they fix things that don't need doing just to cover their overheads.
I took my old focus in for a service and was quoted £400+ for new front and rear brake disks. Said no thanks, took it to an independant who said there was over 15000 miles left on the disks so bring it back in 12 months. He did them for £70.

discs can look ok but bet below min thickness

[purpletimbo]

Spot on with how to tension it, just as my back street garage did it, unfortunately nobody at Ford Technical services or 3 main dealers knew that, or had the tool.
So if you worked where I took it, maybe it wouldn't have cost £1000s in off road and repair bills, I wish I had known there was one Ford garage with a brain in Yorkshire.

[terry.sc]

Reading most of the replies has anyone actually read what this is about?

Originally Posted by notlawnomis

The EU commission has decided that independent car repair centres are "A Bad Thing" and intend to ensure that only Main Dealers and Authorised franchised outlets can repair your vehicle from 2010 so,for example Halfords/Nationwide Autocentres/Kwik fit etc. and your local trusted inependent garage will not be able to look after your car(s).

The EU actually wants the opposite to this, which is why they introduced the Block Exemption in the first place. The current Block Exemption which will run out in 2010 is the 2002 extension of the original Block Exemption introduced in 1995.

In fact the EU wants to continue with a new Block Exemption, tightening it up further by preventing manufacturers from anti-competitive practices, for example the manufacturers would no longer be able to withhold technical information that should be readily available to the independents, such as:

ask em to fit a towbar to a new mondeo, they can but they carnt alter the central car configuration so the electronics knows its fitted!

as your local guy to expalin how fords smart charge works or even tell you about the canbus and linbus networks!

Thanks Mark for the quote

Here's a thought, if anyone asks what has the EU ever done for us they've stopped us being held to ransom by the main dealers.