Summer 2013 Season

[RCMadShane]

Summer 2013 Season

Hi all… It has been commented on that our championship is based on attendance rather than performance, so with this in mind the committee would like to propose the summer season is run to the attached guide…

Have a read and let me know what you think…

[LongRat]

As I see it the situation isn't any different. Only now, this rule will allow someone to compete equally in touring and GT12 with the chance to win both if they do well enough. There are still drop scores rounds as we have always had, so you can miss a few weeks and still have a decent chance in the championship.
Possibly one issue with attendance influencing the championship result is really due to the points scoring system. It is extremely difficult to make up a deficit due to lack of attendance because the winner takes home 30 points and second is so close in points - 29/30 = 97% of a win. I'm personally ok with how the current rules work, but if you wanted to improve this aspect the better method would be to increase the bonus for a win, F1 style... So the points from 1st to 5th might run 30, 22, 18, 15, 13 or something.

[J'MM'N]

Sorry to say it all seems a total nonsense to me and can't see what advantages it will bring. Although the championship is not the all to end all, it does add a little spice to the club racing. So why allow half the season racing for nothing, the only ones that gain any advantage from this are those racing both classes. If you don't want it to be an attendance championship, then make it the best 18-20 scores out of the 26 rounds.

Don't agree with the F1 scoring system either, sorry LR. Although in principle its a good idea and works well in other race programs, it doesn't suit our club racing as those at the bottom would never get any points and they as much as those at the top, want to finish the championship above like for like racers. A lot of championships give an extra point for FTD, why don't we take it a little further and give an extra point for winning your final, which would be yet another incentive for those down in the C or D finals.

Sorry if I sound a bit negative, but I think it could be done better to suit everyone

Could someone point me in the direction of the GERCC’s own GT12/Mardave rules, as I'd be interested.

[Gunter]

I think the idea behind it was so that for those who can't make all that many weeks due to other commitments (work, family etc) they would still be able to feature In the champs and could sort work/fam around the weeks that would just be pratice nights for them. So making it fair on everyone and not just who can make most weeks.

I can't see how the only ones to gain an advantage are people doing both classes cos there nothing stopping people from doing both classes each week currently, it's just a very busy night so but can be done.

Doing this format would also allow nights to just try things and pratice and not endanger any champ points.

Another advantage would be that cars which don't meet one of the champ classes (TC or GT12) would be able to run freely with the class of cars that isnt having a championship night, therefor the racing for the champs would only have like for like cars in their races making the racing cleaner and fair.

And with the extra point for winning there finals wouldn't really work as currently GERCC work slightly differently to most clubs and the qualifying is worked on a FTD basis but the finals are also done in the same way so someone in the B final could win overall of they got the fastest time. Not sure how many peopl aware of this mind.

[RogerM]

From my prospective it would be a disaster!!!

I'd almost bet my house on the fact that all the weeks I could make it would be snooring carp rounds and thus I'd simply stay away as the drivers I'd want to race against would be concentrating on that not GT12.

Leave it as is, let people make the choice what to run. I've no vested interest as at best I could probably do 3 weeks in a 5 week month so no chance of featuring in the championship either way .... not even if I TQ and win every week, which of course I intend to do

[Baldy1986]

To be honest, I am currently sat on the fence and unsure. I have had a think, and here are my (as far as possible) subjective thoughts. It is a bit of an essay, but summit to think about...


Championship every week
Pros
- Competitive racing every week in all classes.
- No matter who turns up when, all will be fighting.
- Getting monies worth every week.
- When focussing on one class, potentially greater chance of beating those spreading focus on two classes.

Cons
- Potentially more expensive - using 'best' tyres every week, for example.
- Less willingness/ability to experiment - with only 2 qualifying races and one final, why change setup and risk a race result?
- When using 2 classes, manic race night every week.

Alternative weeks are championship
Pros
- More willingness to play with setup, experiment a bit more, try new things.
- Potentially cheaper as 'lower quality' parts could be used, such as tyres as it isn't as competitive.
- Less stressful for those racing two classes, as one class is more relaxed.
- Those willing to race 'other' types of cars will be able to race, and in a race which will not affect other championship positions.

Cons
- Every other week could be less fun/less competitive.
- Will this return racing to who has the deepest pockets, as those with greater ability to experiment will benefit most?
- Fewer competitive nights over season will be discounted.

Questions - these aren't weighted just to think about.
- Drivers are worried that they will only be able to attend nights that are non championship - does this matter, as if they are only racing occasional nights, they will not be competitive in the current championship operation anyway?
- Is another idea just to discount more out of the current championship operation, rather than placing specifics dates which do/do not count?
- Is this likely to affect a certain range of drivers - ie, do youngsters/beginners care (Y - they like to be in a championship/N - they just want to race)? Or is this aimed at those who are able to/wanting to experiment for nationals/bigger race weekends?
- Will either choice have an affect on attracting new members/retaining members?
- What happens when a new class of racing appears, or one of these dies out? Will it just be one week on/off or three week rotational cycles? I know this is referring specifically to the Summer 2013 season, but to think about.

[Markygia]

Hi Everyone

I agree with some many of everyones comments. I liked the idea of greater differnece in points between win, 2nd 3rd 4th etc etc. and I liked the idea of extra point - although as someone mentioned its prob not fair but would add an extra little dimension.
I would also suggest maybe a bonus point for fastest lap - just because I want them to implement this in F1

My personal preference is edging in favour of the new proposal as I have two cars. I tried racing both but it serioulsy handicaps both classes. and when you race, marshall, race, marshall and then have to try find time to fix your car or change something it gets too stressful to bother doing it. So i stopped after a while. then didnt get enough rounds in for the GT12 champs.

would be nice to concentrate on one car a week - would still race both but i would only need to worry about changing one car. This would free up a bit more time and be less stressful so would be worth it. therefore I would race GT12 as well as TC whereas previously I had decided to quit GT12. I think the racing would still be competitive, it would still be timed and people would still want to win.
I would think (or though may be wrong) the only people who would miss any races would be people who race two cars and need to miss the odd race.

that practice night was good and we didnt even have lap timing or arranged races - so maybe this is what prompted the proposed changes - people said to me too it was good to try stuff out. It would be even better if the night still had organisation to it.

Would give everyone a chance to race any car they liked too - and would give people who race non-championship classes a chance to race against people of thier own ability rather than dumping them in their own 'mixed' class.

One point I do agree with is excluding non-championship class cars in amoungst a championship class on a championship night.

The last thing you want is your race ruined by someone who aint even officially 'competing' against you.

I'm not blaming anyone racing another class as when you have cars of the wrong class in your race they have different areas where they are faster/slower so again more likely to collide and ruin one-anothers race. Just as likely to happen other way aroud as well - but usually you find someone competing in a championship should be being more cautious as they dont want to lose points. whereas someone turning up adhoc will be more gung ho.

Also, other classes of car dont have restrictions so their cars will likely be faster - but this isnt necessarily matched with the drivers ability - so you have a mixed ability which also doesnt help.

I suppose this is an argument for the new proposed rules as the mixed classes can be run on non-champ nights without it mattering quite AS much.

you wont get any Lovell strops hah

[Markygia]

Grayslick talks some sense. I agree with all of that.

[Gunter]

Extra points for fastest qualifying laps as in who gets FTD gets a extra point which is done in alot of RC racing or for literally the fastest single lap?

Not sure it should be done for the fastest single lap as this sort of promotes doing 1 silly lap risking others cars and going abit wild. FTD I'd agree with tho

[grayslick]

Yes, FTD would be better although like Markygia, I like the idea of a fastest lap from the heats being awarded too but appreciate this might cause other problems in the heats with drivers slowing up to find free space to nail a lap.

FTD point(s) would just create that extra points allocation that could make all the difference if the number of rounds that count are reduced. Otherwise we could end up with several drivers on the same number of points at the end of the summer.

[Gunter]

Yep can totally agree with that, but I think the least we cut it down to is 28 scores counting so another 8 results or 4 weeks so 10 weeks in total can be lost but yea I like the sound of FTD extra point :-)

If there was even point count back would always decide of course

[grayslick]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Yep can totally agree with that, but I think the least we cut it down to is 28 scores counting so another 8 results or 4 weeks so 10 weeks in total can be lost but yea I like the sound of FTD extra point :-)

If there was even point count back would always decide of course

That sounds about right to me. What does everyone else think?

Just took a quick look at the results for last summers Mardave/Mini Championship and there are about 12 or so drivers that attended (or nearly attended) enough weeks to record 28 scores/14 weeks.

[RCMadShane]

Hi all

Well the votes are in and out of the 25 Votes we have a majority who want the new system

Voting was 14 (56%) for yes, 8 (32%) for no and 3(12%) for try something different.

So I am pleased to say the new system will be adopted for the start of the next season.

Thanks for Voting.

[grayslick]

what a stupid system, now I can spend half my time at GERCC "practising", total madness

[Baldy Senior]

Right - let's see if this works!!
I have read through this thread and feel I need to clarify some things and put my view forward, which hopefully is unbiased, as I don't race.

Qualifying score
Some of you have got the right idea of how this is calculated but here it is simplified.
Each week there is a total of 60 points up for grabs (30 for qualifying & 30 for final). 30 points for 1st, 29 for 2nd etc. These are added up each week and the total is divided by the number of weeks ie your average score or qualifying score. The number 30 was picked purely because it was decided that there would never be more than 30 drivers in any one week who would be racing the same class of car. This method of calculating the qualifying score has proved very accurate. This can be shown during any evenings racing by how little the heats change from qualifying to finals. It also is not affected by how often you race except if you only race very very occasionally and only then if your results for that night are not your normal standard.

Championship
The points for the championship are made up from qualifying and finals. I decided that it was unfair to only get points from one race ie the final. There were racers who did really well in qualifying and then messed up in the final and therefore had nothing to show for the evening. Each championship season is approximately 26 weeks. We appreciate that people have holidays etc and (as some of you have realised) we didn't want the championship to be decided by whoever came the most hence we allow for a number of absent weeks - normally about 5. Therefore we say the maximum amount of weeks which can be attributed to your final count is 21. The only advantage now of racing every week is if you have a bad weeks racing because we only use the best 21 weeks out of 26.

Summer championship rules
The new rules will not affect anyone's qualifying position. It just means the scores will be lower because there will be less scoring weeks.
Personally, I can't see any advantage in the new system which reducing the number of qualifying weeks wouldn't solve - say 'the best 15 out of 26'. This way you are not held to certain weeks as qualifying weeks. Say for example you do shift work - it could be feasible that you will be working every qualifying week and therefore get no championship points at all. Doing it my way you can decide for yourself which weeks qualify.

This is just my view - I will do whatever you all decide.

[Baldy Senior]

Had a problem finishing the missive above so thought I would send it before I lost it and continue here.
Mark is correct re how I can manually input qualifying positions.
When someone first starts racing I have to 'guess' a score based on their own view. If this score is proven to be wrong I can adjust it so that drivers are racing against other drivers of a similar ability - obviously if all else fails, £100 will always improve your qualifying score. I think I'm joking but don't tempt me!!

[RogerM]

Have to see how this works out but my first reaction is that I believe it will reduce the number of drivers from the fast end of the field showing up to race on non championship nights thus making the whole thing less fun.
Really enjoying GT12 even if I am still struggling a little with getting my head around setting up a car on sauced foam tires but if I'm right it will be in the classifieds soon & I'll be back to 100 mile round trip for club racing again :-(

See you tonight if my tires show up in time

[grayslick]

Originally Posted by Baldy Senior

Right - let's see if this works!!

Summer championship rules
The new rules will not affect anyone's qualifying position. It just means the scores will be lower because there will be less scoring weeks.
Personally, I can't see any advantage in the new system which reducing the number of qualifying weeks wouldn't solve - say 'the best 15 out of 26'. This way you are not held to certain weeks as qualifying weeks. Say for example you do shift work - it could be feasible that you will be working every qualifying week and therefore get no championship points at all. Doing it my way you can decide for yourself which weeks qualify.

This is just my view - I will do whatever you all decide.

My thoughts exactly, it wasnt broke was it?

We should have just reduced the number of qualifying championship weeks to 12-15 thus keeping the flexibility for attendance and maintaining competitive racing week to week.

The new system will reduce club revenue too. Personally I wont bother coming to non championship weeks whereas currently I come along whenever I can (approx 40 weeks a year) because I know there will always be competitive fun racing.

Sorry chaps, I just dont get it

[Simion Wabs]

As I have stated at the start of this thread. It aint broke so why change it. As Steve and Grayslick have eluded to, reducing the number of weeks that are counted towards the championship would have the same net result.

This wholesale change of the current system only satisfies those that plan on racing two cars in different championships.

Like Martin, I may also consider only racing alternate weeks, reducing active numbers, making the racing less fun.

The club has people travelling from far afield to race competitively at Glos, will these people bother week in week out? I very much doubt it.

So when the club numbers drop again as they do year in year out during the summer months, we will see how profitable the clubs becomes then.

A backward step satisfying the few "who bothered to vote".