Rip off kyosho

[budfish]

Dont get me wrong I love my laser but........kyosho rip you off infact they pull down your trousers and ram it right up... But why???
A pair of big bore springs kyoshos price around £15 compared to a pair of big bore springs for a Schumacher around £5 ....why??
I don't really see a great difference in quality!!

Kyosho shock tower mount a little bit of plastic but you have to buy a huge tree of crap that most off it you won't use cost around £10 why?
Associated don't shaft you with a huge pile of crap most parts are available on their own if not you get a small tree of bits at a decent price..why???

Buds

[RogerM]

Bud I know your a fan of the cars, as is 99% of those who have driven them!

Firstly there is the exchange rate issues with Japan and as Kyosho use Japanesse suppliers your paying for a premium quality product rather than something of lesser quality knocked out on the cheap in a less quality concious economy.
It's the same as paying the extra for a SONY or Panasonic TV compared to a cheapy Tesco special.

Springs, now whilst I agree that £14 a pair is significantly more than most springs I can not agree with what you say about quality. I am currently putting together a big bore spring chart using a £50k spring tester I have access to at work.
The X-gear / Kyosho springs are amazingly good quality with the spring-to-spring and test-to-test (meaning position in the fixture as I rotate and invert between runs) is brilliant and the other manufactures you mention springs are (politically correct wording) less so to the point I'm taking mine out of my spares box.

If your looking for good quality big bore springs at a good price then I can recomend the Losi springs. spring-to-spring and test-to-test although not as good as the X-gear springs are prefectly acceptable (I use them myself on my own cars sometimes) and about £3.30 a pair from JE Spares.

Shock tower mounts are a slightly different tale as yes you do have to by the whole transmission case tree but I can honestly say that I never broke the revised strengthened FS plastic mounts in any crash that was mild enough to not damage something else at the front of the car (I'm talking about the sort of thing that would have seen a XX4 go home in a hoover bag)

The aluminium tower mounts are available and totally solve that issue (remember they are 1.25mm lower so need spacing up) and you can increase the length of the screws holding the transcase together to about 18-20mm (depending on amount of under tower spacers you use) which makes the front end bullet proof when used with the LA216B front tower.

As I always say to people, spares prices are only an issue if you break a lot of stuff. I'd rather drive strong reliable cars with slightly higher spares prices like the Kyoshos where I might have to replace 1 part a couple of times a year (if that ... so far I haven't put a part on the FS2) than a car with cheaper spares that needs stuff every other meeting.

Stick with the cars mate, remember the quote, "there is high quality, fast supply of updates/improvement and cheap prices ... pick 2 as you can't have all 3"

[David Church]

Originally Posted by budfish

Dont get me wrong I love my laser but........kyosho rip you off infact they pull down your trousers and ram it right up... But why???
A pair of big bore springs kyoshos price around £15 compared to a pair of big bore springs for a Schumacher around £5 ....why??
I don't really see a great difference in quality!!

Kyosho shock tower mount a little bit of plastic but you have to buy a huge tree of crap that most off it you won't use cost around £10 why?
Associated don't shaft you with a huge pile of crap most parts are available on their own if not you get a small tree of bits at a decent price..why???

Buds

Here is a simple answer.......... Because they can!

[/tobys]

Hi Roger, any idea when your spring rate comparison will be completed?

[budfish]

Originally Posted by RogerM

Bud I know your a fan of the cars, as is 99% of those who have driven them!

Firstly there is the exchange rate issues with Japan and as Kyosho use Japanesse suppliers your paying for a premium quality product rather than something of lesser quality knocked out on the cheap in a less quality concious economy.
It's the same as paying the extra for a SONY or Panasonic TV compared to a cheapy Tesco special.

Springs, now whilst I agree that £14 a pair is significantly more than most springs I can not agree with what you say about quality. I am currently putting together a big bore spring chart using a £50k spring tester I have access to at work.
The X-gear / Kyosho springs are amazingly good quality with the spring-to-spring and test-to-test (meaning position in the fixture as I rotate and invert between runs) is brilliant and the other manufactures you mention springs are (politically correct wording) less so to the point I'm taking mine out of my spares box.

If your looking for good quality big bore springs at a good price then I can recomend the Losi springs. spring-to-spring and test-to-test although not as good as the X-gear springs are prefectly acceptable (I use them myself on my own cars sometimes) and about £3.30 a pair from JE Spares.

Shock tower mounts are a slightly different tale as yes you do have to by the whole transmission case tree but I can honestly say that I never broke the revised strengthened FS plastic mounts in any crash that was mild enough to not damage something else at the front of the car (I'm talking about the sort of thing that would have seen a XX4 go home in a hoover bag)

The aluminium tower mounts are available and totally solve that issue (remember they are 1.25mm lower so need spacing up) and you can increase the length of the screws holding the transcase together to about 18-20mm (depending on amount of under tower spacers you use) which makes the front end bullet proof when used with the LA216B front tower.

As I always say to people, spares prices are only an issue if you break a lot of stuff. I'd rather drive strong reliable cars with slightly higher spares prices like the Kyoshos where I might have to replace 1 part a couple of times a year (if that ... so far I haven't put a part on the FS2) than a car with cheaper spares that needs stuff every other meeting.

Stick with the cars mate, remember the quote, "there is high quality, fast supply of updates/improvement and cheap prices ... pick 2 as you can't have all 3"

I haven't really noticed any increase in price due to exchange rate Roger as price havent changed much in the last couple of years I'm expecting the higher prices coming soon!!

No offense Roger but I think you are blinded by love

[RudeTony]

Bud

The Kyosho springs are better than all of them hence why the very best drivers driving other makes than Kyosho use the Kyosho springs on their shock absorbers.
They are extremely progressive and quality.
I am not sure if that is a good reason for the price of course but I know that one has to pay for the best as in anything in life.

Surely you woudn't expect a Zonda to be the same price as a Metro - at the end of the day they both get you from A to B - LOL

[Big G]

Strange that Kyosho haven't released a spring rate chart like everyone else and the end user has to do the work

[Neil Skull]

Originally Posted by David Church

Here is a simple answer.......... Because they can!

The only reason we would Rip people off is if we was greedy and had a product that everyone used and needed.

We are neither, we are importing from a country which is expensive to do but also selling premium quality.

I admit some stuff is bloody expensive like the big bore shock springs but thats due to kyosho using best possible spring supplier.

I cant afford to run them

It does not mean they are not good though! If you are on a tight budget then dont use them.

The Sprue for the shock mount has a few parts its true and as always you find there is one piece you only really want.

Its not planned this way. When you make an Injection Tool you want it to make a reasonable size sprue. As the costs of the tool runs into tens of thousands its not easy to change.

To be fair this is not unique to Kyosho.

I have also to be honest and say i never broken that piece in 2 years i been running the car.

Few shock towers, hubs during normal use. Thats pretty cheap to me over 2 seasons.

The question is do you want to be travelling hundreds of miles to race and having failures or do you want a car that is strong and reliable the only issue being some few pounds on sprues you dont entirely need or Big Bore springs that are too expensive for many club racers?

I think compared to the spares you would use from some other brands for you will fnd you get a lot more for your Bucks.

I often beat faster guys than me for one reason i finish

[David Church]

Originally Posted by Neil Skull

The only reason we would Rip people off is if we was greedy and had a product that everyone used and needed.

We are neither, we are importing from a country which is expensive to do but also selling premium quality.

I admit some stuff is bloody expensive like the big bore shock springs but thats due to kyosho using best possible spring supplier.

I cant afford to run them

It does not mean they are not good though! If you are on a tight budget then dont use them.

The Sprue for the shock mount has a few parts its true and as always you find there is one piece you only really want.

Its not planned this way. When you make an Injection Tool you want it to make a reasonable size sprue. As the costs of the tool runs into tens of thousands its not easy to change.

To be fair this is not unique to Kyosho.

I have also to be honest and say i never broken that piece in 2 years i been running the car.

Few shock towers, hubs during normal use. Thats pretty cheap to me over 2 seasons.

The question is do you want to be travelling hundreds of miles to race and having failures or do you want a car that is strong and reliable the only issue being some few pounds on sprues you dont entirely need or Big Bore springs that are too expensive for many club racers?

I think compared to the spares you would use from some other brands for you will fnd you get a lot more for your Bucks.

I often beat faster guys than me for one reason i finish

I didnt say you were ripping people off, I said you charged that much because you can

[Big G]

Originally Posted by Neil Skull

Its not planned this way. When you make an Injection Tool you want it to make a reasonable size sprue. As the costs of the tool runs into tens of thousands its not easy to change.

To be fair this is not unique to Kyosho.

Durango do this too with the shock Eyes on the bottom of the shaft. They come on a sprue with every ball cup you have on the car for turn buckles and ARB mounts. At least you get a lot of spares lol...

[teamorsum96]

i think its because there trying to get money back after the earthquake lol

[budfish]

Originally Posted by Neil Skull

The only reason we would Rip people off is if we was greedy and had a product that everyone used and needed.

We are neither, we are importing from a country which is expensive to do but also selling premium quality.

I admit some stuff is bloody expensive like the big bore shock springs but thats due to kyosho using best possible spring supplier.

I cant afford to run them

It does not mean they are not good though! If you are on a tight budget then dont use them.

The Sprue for the shock mount has a few parts its true and as always you find there is one piece you only really want.

Its not planned this way. When you make an Injection Tool you want it to make a reasonable size sprue. As the costs of the tool runs into tens of thousands its not easy to change.

To be fair this is not unique to Kyosho.

I have also to be honest and say i never broken that piece in 2 years i been running the car.

Few shock towers, hubs during normal use. Thats pretty cheap to me over 2 seasons.

The question is do you want to be travelling hundreds of miles to race and having failures or do you want a car that is strong and reliable the only issue being some few pounds on sprues you dont entirely need or Big Bore springs that are too expensive for many club racers?

I think compared to the spares you would use from some other brands for you will fnd you get a lot more for your Bucks.

I often beat faster guys than me for one reason i finish

Don't get me wrong neil I can go 5 or 6 meetings with out breaking a thing then bang shock tower mount goes it's the £10 I got to pay to get a part that really should cost £2 or at least should come with the tower I've got about 6 front gear boxes now

I think I might put the ally mounts back on but then I'll do a shock tower every other meeting so economics of it is the same

How does kyosho Europe justify the cost of brg100 ???

Kyosho stands for maximum profit!!!

[Dudders]

Originally Posted by budfish

it's the £10 I got to pay to get a part that really should cost £2

Why should it 'only' cost £2?. It's £10 like it or lump it.

You seem to like a good arguement so I'll play along with the game on this.....

Are you seriously telling me you brought a car to race week in week out without checking how much the spares or parts were???? Seriously?, really? Oh my.....

You buy an Audi or BMW you will pay for parts because they are quality. You buy a Kia or Fiat and the parts are cheap. You do the math.

Perhaps you need to buy a Losi or Madrat?

Neil

[budfish]

Each different parts tree seems to have one part that breaks regular ie front bulk head tree + rear front and back bumper sets why not just sell a pack with a front and back bumper in that's it???? Why make me pay for a load of crap that I dont want????
As for the laser being tough have you been on some strong medication this morning?? The car has a good drive train that keeps it going but if you hit something it falls to pieces like a cut and shut.
Why do you think all these after Market strengthers are available ie chassis brace ally shock mounts???? To mention a few

Buds

[David Church]

Originally Posted by Dudders

Why should it 'only' cost £2?. It's £10 like it or lump it.

You seem to like a good arguement so I'll play along with the game on this.....

Are you seriously telling me you brought a car to race week in week out without checking how much the spares or parts were???? Seriously?, really? Oh my.....

You buy an Audi or BMW you will pay for parts because they are quality. You buy a Kia or Fiat and the parts are cheap. You do the math.

Perhaps you need to buy a Losi or Madrat?

Neil

Neil, are you saying that Losi and the Madrat are of the same quality???
Im sure the Losi boys will be happy reading this???

[budfish]

Originally Posted by Dudders

Why should it 'only' cost £2?. It's £10 like it or lump it.

You seem to like a good arguement so I'll play along with the game on this.....

Are you seriously telling me you brought a car to race week in week out without checking how much the spares or parts were???? Seriously?, really? Oh my.....

You buy an Audi or BMW you will pay for parts because they are quality. You buy a Kia or Fiat and the parts are cheap. You do the math.

Perhaps you need to buy a Losi or Madrat?

Neil

You fool.
The part I want off the huge tree is not even worth £2 I was being kind and trying not to offend

As for the BMW Audi comment I've had both top of the range in each untill the chavs got hold of them I now have a Volvo

I ain't no spotty faced student !!

[Dudders]

Originally Posted by David Church

Neil, are you saying that Losi and the Madrat are of the same quality???
Im sure the Losi boys will be happy reading this???

Not really David, was just the first two names that came into my head TBH I think they did becuase the kits are cheaper than say the Kyosho, that's all

[budfish]

Originally Posted by Dudders

Not really David, was just the first two names that came into my head TBH I think they did becuase the kits are cheaper than say the Kyosho, that's all

I'm not shy when it comes to spending money I just don't like being ripped off
I want to be loyal to my chosen brand but just wish kyosho was loyal back!!!

As for losi I feel for the lads who bought them with the diff issues that's why I've bought ceramic balls to help them out I'm all heart really!!

[rondoolaa]

i had an issue with a part but it wasnt kyosho,

although i cant understand why kyosho america wont ship to the uk,
*******

i had an issue with lrp driveshafts for the shark that only have a 2mm shaft that breaks as soon as you hit somethin and at between £30 and £40 a pair it works out cheaper to buy a second hand car for £50 with 4 driveshafts on it,

even though you can dismantle the driveshafts like the diffs you cant buy just the end bit with the 2mm threaded shaft, wheras on the diffs you can buy everything seperate......

do lrp know this is a part that breaks easily and make you pay through the nose for them instead of having to pay half the price for only the parts you need.....*******

[RogerM]

bud, if you are having strength issues with the ZX5 please send me a PM explaining the issues and I am sure that I can tell you how to solve that for next to zero cost.

The cars are amazingly good to drive and very very strong. I've had my fair share of big crashes since running them (I do sometimes get a bit carried away) but I rarely break anything at all.

The LA216B front shock tower is a huge improvement in strength, not heard of a broken one yet.
If you do as I suggest with the front end build it will be massively strong, trust me.

There is a slight issue with the front uprights, no more than any other car with plastic uprights to be fair but if I break anything it is those. I asked Shin why there was no aluminium replacements and no aluminium rearward front hinge pin brace and he told me "wouldn't you rather break something quick and easy to change than something like a chassis" .... good point I thought!

As for why you can't buy individual parts it's as Neil said, Kyosho have to have more than one part in each mould tool to make it viable and if they then bagged them individually they would end up with a lot of bits they had 1000s of they would never sell .... they would then have to put the price up of parts they did sell to cover the costs of the ones they didn't.

I am running on a VERY tight budget and that is part of the reason I prefer the Kyosho cars .... super cheap to run as they don't wear out and rarely break in my experience.