McLaren MP4-12C

[General Accident]

Not that I'm in the market for one but can't believe how boring it looks, compared to the Ferrari 458 Italia. I think it looks kind of like a kit car that I can't quite place. There a definate hints of Gallardo and Ferrari 360M in there, as well as the old F1.

[NeilD]

I wouldn't say no.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...l-story-09-09/

[Nige55]

Originally Posted by General Accident

Not that I'm in the market for one but can't believe how boring it looks, compared to the Ferrari 458 Italia. I think it looks kind of like a kit car that I can't quite place. There a definate hints of Gallardo and Ferrari 360M in there, as well as the old F1.

Exactly, whilst I'm sure it's a technological tour de force, but what I had feared for a while (due to an ex-Mclaren collegue of mine), it's generic as can be. I hate to state 'that's borrowed / copied from that' as I know It does NOT work that way, but there is very little about it that is even contemporary, let alone new. I hope Mclaren find a stronger brand design dna with the next model !

[Nige55]

Just did some further reading on the new 'Macca', -Design Director Frank Stephenson was appointed when the car was basically signed off. So his role was actually in adding interest to the design (leading on from the P11). Which leads me to question who was directing the whole design development process before he arrived ? From what I heard, it's been under development for years. Perhaps consultation work from Peter Stevens ?

[NeilD]

Originally Posted by Nige55

Just did some further reading on the new 'Macca', -Design Director Frank Stephenson was appointed when the car was basically signed off. So his role was actually in adding interest to the design (leading on from the P11). Which leads me to question who was directing the whole design development process before he arrived ? From what I heard, it's been under development for years. Perhaps consultation work from Peter Stevens ?

Guys, this is a totally English hyper car, the first of many to come from Ron Dennis and McLaren, lets get behind them. The car looks amazing and hopefully will go equally as well.

[Nige55]

Originally Posted by NeilD

Guys, this is a totally English hyper car, the first of many to come from Ron Dennis and McLaren, lets get behind them. The car looks amazing and hopefully will go equally as well.

Oh Sure, I'll be fully supporting it's tech capabilities.

[NeilD]

Originally Posted by Nige55

Oh Sure, I'll be fully supporting it's tech capabilities.

Good man, they may not have the heritage of Ferrari ect however there is a place for them in the modern market.

[Nige55]

Originally Posted by NeilD

Good man, they may not have the heritage of Ferrari ect however there is a place for them in the modern market.

Yeah, no doubt there is. Potentially, they have a more prestigious current entry to the market than the current standing of Ferrari or Lamborghini, with such a pure racing hertige un-tapped and untainted by Hollywood boulevard cruisers. That's the dissapointment for me, they had a blank page and came up with a design that looks like a poor relative of the 2, IMHO. Hope Frank will get visionary for the next one ! Cheers Neil !

[NeilD]

Originally Posted by Nige55

Yeah, no doubt there is. Potentially, they have a more prestigious current entry to the market than the current standing of Ferrari or Lamborghini, with such a pure racing hertige un-tapped and untainted by Hollywood boulevard cruisers. That's the dissapointment for me, they had a blank page and came up with a design that looks like a poor relative of the 2, IMHO. Hope Frank will get visionary for the next one ! Cheers Neil !

Maybe you/we expected too much? It may not be the best looking machine around but it all comes down to how it drives. For me, i believe it will match the F1, strong words i know, however McLaren rarely funk up.

[Nige55]

Originally Posted by NeilD

Maybe you/we expected too much? It may not be the best looking machine around but it all comes down to how it drives. For me, i believe it will match the F1, strong words i know, however McLaren rarely funk up.

Oh, indeed Neil, I have noooo doubts it will be a screamer of a car. However, it's a competitive Global market out there, we should expect too much ! Do you think the Germans would ever say 'oh, - Franz, - you just expect too much !' Then let's keep on our toes ! For the good of our (now small) car industry

[NeilD]

Originally Posted by Nige55

Oh, indeed Neil, I have noooo doubts it will be a screamer of a car. However, it's a competitive Global market out there, we should expect too much ! Do you think the Germans would ever say 'oh, - Franz, - you just expect too much !' Then let's keep on our toes ! For the good of our (now small) car industry

Very good point and equally well made however are the Germans making hyper cars, no they aren't they make excellent sports tourers the McLaren is a car which will rock you. PS I am very drunk right now so i hope my comments make sense to you!

[Nige55]

Originally Posted by NeilD

Very good point and equally well made however are the Germans making hyper cars, no they aren't they make excellent sports tourers the McLaren is a car which will rock you. PS I am very drunk right now so i hope my comments make sense to you!

LOL, No worries Neil, I ditched the beers earlier and well dived into Brandy, for some unknown reason. You made all the sense in the world, - like, all of it ! Hope there's some sense left over for tomorrow.......

[NeilD]

Originally Posted by Nige55

LOL, No worries Neil, I ditched the beers earlier and well dived into Brandy, for some unknown reason. You made all the sense in the world, - like, all of it ! Hope there's some sense left over for tomorrow.......

Lets talk tomorrow and see what develops. The underlying feeling is that we want to see the UK compete in the hypercar market.

[traffman]

I prefer the looks of the 458 italia , its a very pretty car harking back to the 355 ferrari.

However i like the mclaren and wouldnt say no to that either.

[General Accident]

I don't question the engineering integrity of the Macca for a moment, and I'm sure that dynamically it will be brilliant too. I'm also as patriotic as the next guy so I do hope it takes off in the way Ron Dennis hopes. There is just a piece of me that thinks that only a very small fraction of the (globally) very small market for these cars gives a rats ass about engineering and dynamics - and I think that buyer is already well catered for if he is the guy who bought an Aston One-77 chassis to hang on his wall . Most buyers end up with one because it screams "HEY LOOK AT MEEEEEE" and I just think this car looks a tad too bland to do that. Just my opinion of course and therefore I'm sure Ron won't lose too much sleep over it.

[Nige55]

Originally Posted by General Accident

I don't question the engineering integrity of the Macca for a moment, and I'm sure that dynamically it will be brilliant too. I'm also as patriotic as the next guy so I do hope it takes off in the way Ron Dennis hopes. There is just a piece of me that thinks that only a very small fraction of the (globally) very small market for these cars gives a rats ass about engineering and dynamics - and I think that buyer is already well catered for if he is the guy who bought an Aston One-77 chassis to hang on his wall . Most buyers end up with one because it screams "HEY LOOK AT MEEEEEE" and I just think this car looks a tad too bland to do that. Just my opinion of course and therefore I'm sure Ron won't lose too much sleep over it.

Exactly ! My point is also that it's not actually hard to make a supercar look good, the engineering package will already assure it a great stance and proportion. The thing is for me, all the great supercars also had a design that made them memorable (250 gto, f40, countach, muira, etc etc). Whilst for most of these, form followed function, and produced a memorable dna. The test of it comes if you ask someone to sketch a car, - the great designs are easy, because there's an easy to grasp character to them that is unmistakable. If I had to do a sketch of this Macca, I doubt it would instantly tell people what it was specifically. As Neil mentioned, I'm as for a British rule breaking world contending supercar as anyone, but if we can't objectivley self evaluate, we will loose our edge. Also, don't forget that not all the roads in the world are like ours in the UK, the Macca may appeal to us here, but there are perhaps more effective weapons depending on what roads or highways you drive on. Just my 2 cents LOL.