22 diff. to balls it or gear it?

[TARTMAN]

I have been running my 22 for a couple months now and need to rebuild the diff.
I am wondering about the plus and negatives of the gear diff?

I have heard that there not great in the wet/slippy conditions compared to the ball diff.... Also, the rtr22 diff comes greeced and ready to fit i am told, but also people mention diff oil of various grades. Can someone explain what is best etc?

I have a spare 22, so am thinking maybe running one with gear diff for the dry and one with balls for the wet. hmmmm..

whats my options and what do you guys recommend?

[budfish]

I recomend ceramic balls

[jcb]

I haven't run the gear diff but can thoroughly recommend ceramic balls too.
They make the diff action so much smoother, which makes the car easier to drive and it lasts a longer between rebuilds too.

I believe the gear diff frees up the rear end a little which is why it works better on higher grip tracks. No doubt someone who has used one will comment soon.

[TARTMAN]

Originally Posted by budfish

I recomend ceramic balls

theres a shocker......

aleady have ceramic balls. but need to know the pro's and cons of the gear diffs verses the ball diff...........

[Robby]

Under the auspices of not starting another deadend thread, because it's already been widely discussed (everyone's tired of it, and the arguing), I'd suggest checking any one of the pre-existing threads where opinions have already been given......

here's a couple to get you started -
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103717
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79066

[Frecklychimp]

I stand by my comments in those threads,

Worth having one and trying it as it may suit the way you drive and improve the car for you.

Indoors on more grip predictable surfaces i would definitely run one.

5K-7K is the oil range i found to suit my driving best,

anything lighter than 5K and the inside wheel span up too quickly coming out of corners or the back end was twitching under hard acceleration

[TARTMAN]

Originally Posted by Robby

Under the auspices of not starting another deadend thread, because it's already been widely discussed (everyone's tired of it, and the arguing), I'd suggest checking any one of the pre-existing threads where opinions have already been given......

here's a couple to get you started -
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103717
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79066

i did look but with so many thousands of threads, i gave up looking. this is a forum, opinions change often, and if a thread was a few months old, the opinions may have changed in that time and more people would have tried them.

If you dont like these new theads, best ignore them maybe?

one of those is not relevant and the other is 7 pages of babble. I am after a few simple replies to my question from those that have tried and tested both diffs...........

so back to my questions.......................

thank you so far, i have put it in the car and gona run as it came, with greece in it. then strip and clean it and try some heavy oil, thanks sounds like its worth a try....

[Frecklychimp]

The only problem with running with the RTR grease for racing (as they now come built...mine was a bag of bits!) is that you'll have no benchmark for tuning, any oil will be softer than the grease but give different resistance and temperature working tolerance...also a different feel to the car i would have thought... the grease in them is usually very thick and a pain to clean out going on experience with other Losi RTR gear diffs!

I started with 3K and went upwards, with each grade it improved.

Remember to bed it in before running it... hold one wheel and apply power, starting with low power and alternating holding each wheel.

I changed the oil in mine after a couple of runs to inspect it and there was some light swarf from bedding in, best to get rid rater than having increased wear rate on gears.

Just keep an eye on outdrive wear as they are softer than the ball diff outdrives

The car will instantly accelerate faster and brake a lot harder, it does feel completely different at first and you will have to adapt a little when taking jumps so take it steady to start with!

Hope it works for you matey,

Mark

[TARTMAN]

Originally Posted by Frecklychimp

The only problem with running with the RTR grease for racing (as they now come built...mine was a bag of bits!) is that you'll have no benchmark for tuning, any oil will be softer than the grease but give different resistance and temperature working tolerance...also a different feel to the car i would have thought... the grease in them is usually very thick and a pain to clean out going on experience with other Losi RTR gear diffs!

I started with 3K and went upwards, with each grade it improved.

Remember to bed it in before running it... hold one wheel and apply power, starting with low power and alternating holding each wheel.

I changed the oil in mine after a couple of runs to inspect it and there was some light swarf from bedding in, best to get rid rater than having increased wear rate on gears.

Just keep an eye on outdrive wear as they are softer than the ball diff outdrives

The car will instantly accelerate faster and brake a lot harder, it does feel completely different at first and you will have to adapt a little when taking jumps so take it steady to start with!

Hope it works for you matey,

Mark

Many thanks, just the advice i was looking for. will bed it in, run it for a meeting as is, then strip it and try oil, maybe 4000 as a starter fom whats been said..... i am not a fan of to much steering and run near bald front tyres, so will be a new car to try almost i reckon lol.....

[Frecklychimp]

Originally Posted by TARTMAN

Many thanks, just the advice i was looking for. will bed it in, run it for a meeting as is, then strip it and try oil, maybe 4000 as a starter fom whats been said..... i am not a fan of to much steering and run near bald front tyres, so will be a new car to try almost i reckon lol.....

You will notice a difference in steering, particularly turn in is not as harsh.

I've just not got it to work for me in the wet and its not a setting i want to be testing/playing with at a proper meeting due to work involved and risk of making it worse so was swapped out for the predictable ball diff...

for some random reason it was awesome with 5K oil on frosty Broxtowe astroturf though

Let us know how you get on... as far as i'm aware the works TLR drivers are not running it outdoors either and i know a fair few Durango drivers have tried theirs and gone back to playing with balls!

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Pretty much everything that Frecklychimp has said on the subject I would agree with.

Most of the Horizon UK / TLR drivers continue to use the ball diff but those that have tried the gear have all reported back the same findings as the Chimp - in that it feels slightly different to drive, gives more drive (they had to back off their slipper settings) and in dry conditions they felt it was no handicap once an oil range was found that suited them.

The reason we continue to use the ball diff is that in variable weather / grip conditions, the consensus of opinion is that the ball diff is more consistent across a wider range of conditions whereas the gear diff could excel in dry and high bite conditions but that the characteristics didn't suit the wet conditions if the diff had been set up for the dry.

With the vagaries of the UK weather being anything but predictably hot, dry and sunny, we've all largely chosen to continue with the ball diff for now.
HTH

[TARTMAN]

Originally Posted by Gnarly Old Dog

Pretty much everything that Frecklychimp has said on the subject I would agree with.

Most of the Horizon UK / TLR drivers continue to use the ball diff but those that have tried the gear have all reported back the same findings as the Chimp - in that it feels slightly different to drive, gives more drive (they had to back off their slipper settings) and in dry conditions they felt it was no handicap once an oil range was found that suited them.

The reason we continue to use the ball diff is that in variable weather / grip conditions, the consensus of opinion is that the ball diff is more consistent across a wider range of conditions whereas the gear diff could excel in dry and high bite conditions but that the characteristics didn't suit the wet conditions if the diff had been set up for the dry.

With the vagaries of the UK weather being anything but predictably hot, dry and sunny, we've all largely chosen to continue with the ball diff for now.
HTH

So.... being someone that does not want to strip the car to much etc etc, i will run one 22 with a ball diff for dry and one with the gear diff after finding the right oil..... seems the best idea, as i have 2 of them and enough electrics for both. one set for wet and one for dry......
Many thanks for the replies guys, as always oopler's know best...

[Frecklychimp]

Originally Posted by Frecklychimp

i know a fair few Durango drivers have tried theirs and gone back to playing with balls!

Gutted nobody picked up on my deliberate wording!

I have my gear diff in a seperate complete gearbox ready to go, that way it can be dropped straight in at a meeting... handy if i have any issues with another gearbox as its fairly quick to swap in between heats

[TARTMAN]

Originally Posted by Frecklychimp

Gutted nobody picked up on my deliberate wording!

I have my gear diff in a seperate complete gearbox ready to go, that way it can be dropped straight in at a meeting... handy if i have any issues with another gearbox as its fairly quick to swap in between heats

may end up doing that instead.......... think i have enough to build a spare gearbox now........ great idea/advice as always. cheers muchly.

[TARTMAN]

tried the RTR gear diff today at SHRCCC

damp start...... rotated loads and not impressed.... but was warned in the wet its not good.

dried out by round 3..... got a little better.......

by the 3rd leg of the A final. the diff and car came together and won the 3rd leg of the A final.....

BUT

i need to clean the diff out and replace the factory filled greece with some oil. 5,000 i think will do the job, its a start lol....

I was so close to binning the gear diff and putting the ball one back in, but i reckon the oil will defo help.....

It was not great to start but i am sure with some mods and set up change the gear diff will do what i need. so will report back after some more testing..... but 1st impressions were ! NOOOOO, then eased into it, now, think i may like it with an oil change lol.............

the advice so far has been about 99% right. Got to love oople people..... wealth of knowledge!

[vrooom]

I installed gear diff in my tlr 22, i found I was slower due the gear diff letting the wheel spinning inside out of corners. It also made mess of my gearbox due gear diff leaking, so im back with ball.

But i need those 3/32 carbine thingy balls to make diff last longer.

[TARTMAN]

Originally Posted by vrooom

I installed gear diff in my tlr 22, i found I was slower due the gear diff letting the wheel spinning inside out of corners. It also made mess of my gearbox due gear diff leaking, so im back with ball.

But i need those 3/32 carbine thingy balls to make diff last longer.

I have cleaned the diff out and put in 3000 oil, as seemed to be a good starting point fom what i have been told..... A very quick geabox to take out etc now i have done it a couple of times.

I will stick with the gear diff for a bit, may end up going back to balls, but will see what happens.... Like the idea of less maintanance if i can get the oil and set up right............ Hope it dont leak thou.............

[Frecklychimp]

Never had an issue with leaking,

i green seal slime on outdrive seals when building to help sealand lubricate the outdrives to slow o ring wear, particularly when new.

Over filling with oil is normally the reason gear diffs leak... you should only fill till planetary gears/pins are covered and there is a visible bowl shape in the oil... it sometimes doesn't look enough but its the thickness of oil that gives resistance to gears rotating, not volume filling the whole unit up so the gears can't rotate... then as the force overcomes it the seals break and excess oil leaks out!

If diff oil leaks onto your gearbox gears you will get a lot of transmission drag.

if they are filled correctly and still leaking is an issue... use a smear/bead of Loctite 5910 automotive sealant around edges of casing when assembing from clean, that will stop it... but it'll need plenty of curing time...can be bought in halfords etc, used in engine building on sumps/gearboxes/diffs etc etc so more than good enough for a model car diff!

[TARTMAN]

Originally Posted by Frecklychimp

Never had an issue with leaking,

i green seal slime on outdrive seals when building to help sealand lubricate the outdrives to slow o ring wear, particularly when new.

Over filling with oil is normally the reason gear diffs leak... you should only fill till planetary gears/pins are covered and there is a visible bowl shape in the oil... it sometimes doesn't look enough but its the thickness of oil that gives resistance to gears rotating, not volume filling the whole unit up so the gears can't rotate... then as the force overcomes it the seals break and excess oil leaks out!

If diff oil leaks onto your gearbox gears you will get a lot of transmission drag.

if they are filled correctly and still leaking is an issue... use a smear/bead of Loctite 5910 automotive sealant around edges of casing when assembing from clean, that will stop it... but it'll need plenty of curing time...can be bought in halfords etc, used in engine building on sumps/gearboxes/diffs etc etc so more than good enough for a model car diff!

excellent advice as always, many thanks. think i might have over filled it a little, will see what happens.

[TARTMAN]

so far so good. it was loads better with the 3000 oil in it. Great in the dry at the shrccc track, but when it got wet, not as good, but early days...

still not convinced but going to ty it at the stotfold regional sunday and see what its like. rebuilt ball diff ready and waiting in case lol......

So my opinion so far............ Gear diff is faster in the car, ideal for sweeping tracks, gives lots more forward drive. But not so good on a twisty or wet track. Morre testing needed............