Why do the USA guys have stock class?

[chrispattinson]

Just been reading a thread discussing race meetings, and it was mentioned that in the USA, there is stock class and mod class for most RC disciplines.
After looking online, it seems this is common throughout the USA.
There are specific speedos out just for Stock class, which maximise the slower motors performance through timing advances.
Why do these two classes still exist? I understand when brushed motors were around, it wouldve been a cost / maintenance thing.... but 'mod' racing is so accessable now cost wise, it seems strange to me that some people opt to keep the stock class running??

[bigred5765]

it should level out the playing field and make it all about the driver, in theory

[chrispattinson]

Originally Posted by bigred5765

it should level out the playing field and make it all about the driver, in theory

yeah, thats what I thought it was about in the brushed motor days . . . . but now, my car is as fast as Neil Cragg's, and its all about the driver's driving/car setup, hence he p#*s*s all over my laptimes at Worksop.
And with all the dynamic timing tricks available, it seems that stock class encourages more voodoo to make your car better than the others than mod racing.

[DCM]

I think it has more to do with the slick tracks too, where you still get reasonable speed out of a stock motor too...

[Hog]

Perhaps I could point you towards the success story of FORCC (Faversham Off Road Car Club - look for it in the club section).

We only race stock due to the size of our hall. 63 drivers on a Wednesday night can't be wrong.

You don't have to be doing 100mph to have fun you know.

[Garry]

And the American mentality of everyone having to be a winner.

I kid you not, at the International Indoor Carpet champs in Vegas last year (my bro went over and did 2 classes), they had the following all taking place at the same event:

Amateur 17.5 Rubber Tire Sedan
13.5 Rubber Tire Sedan
Modified Rubber Tire Sedan
17.5 Foam Tire Sedan
13.5 Foam Tire Sedan
Modified Foam Tire Sedan
17.5 1/12 Scale
13.5 1/12 Scale
Modified 1/12 Scale
World GT 13.5
Expert World GT 10.5

40ish heats...first heat on the line at 7am.....last one starting gone 7pm.

[DCM]

In certain classes of on-road, running more than 10.5 is really hairy, also, certain sections homologate ESC's, and with the advent of brushless, it has caused some headaches.

[James]

Its for two reasons as i understand it:

1: Stock is cheaper

2: So the club/regional drivers can race in a class that they can win or do well in.

I dont believe (in off-road) that its to create a level playing field. As pointed out earlier any decent branded equipment these days is pretty much similar, its very hard to get a performance advantage from your electrical system over another, you just need to know how to set it up right

[mark christopher]

arnt stock speedos, cells and motors all the same price as the full blown stuff?

[BagofSkill]

In my experience 'stock' classes are slower, so easier to drive for novices and people without the mad skills, there's alot less wear and tear on equipment, you don't need top line batts to finish a race (now negated by Li-Po) you probably crash less and don't crash as hard so break less stuff.

If you look at it the other way it's only UK off road that has dropped stock classes. Everywhere else in the world (that I know) and UK on road still runs separate 'stock' 'super stock' and 'mod' classes in most electric categories.

Re the timing advance speedos, in any type of controlled racing, when everyone is on the same level, getting a little advantage is a big deal, so even in the brushed days people always opted for the best speedo's and lots of tuning tricks for stock or 27t/19t racing.

[Hog]

Originally Posted by BagofSkill

If you look at it the other way it's only UK off road that has dropped stock classes.

Really? Perhaps at Regional and National level yes - but I can prove it's still popular at Club level.

[AndyF]

The loss of std class at Batley was the reason I gave up many years ago. Back then mod motors were three times the price of std and the cells you needed to last 5 minutes also three time the price of standard unmatched 1200 (yes 1200mAh) that could keep a 27T motor spinning 6 minutes plus. So in the end, as a mid teen I just could not afford to be competitive.

However. If from what I read even the cheapest import motors and lipos from china can give you 5 mins and more speed than normal humans can control then I guess the only cost factor then is the DAMAGE!

[DCM]

on and off-road are different, and motor limit is due to track sizes, I know racing 10.5 in my saloon is as quick as racing mod 4wd buggy. Outdoors in off-road, mod is the best, but at club level, I see a place for stock motors, but at a BRCA national series, I see no point in a stock class, that is where smaller series should be.

[mole2k]

My local club is indoors on polished wood in a small church hall. We run a 10.5t motor limit as generally speaking anything more just produces wheelspin. The top few guys could easily run hotter motors and be quicker but the 10.5 limit is good as it stops the less experienced people putting really quick motors in. I know lots of other buggy clubs do the same.

Im not a fan of stock motors outside or even in high grip conditions indoors, 10.5t on polished wood feels about as quick outdoors with a 7.5t.

[DaSloth]

Originally Posted by Hog

Perhaps I could point you towards the success story of FORCC (Faversham Off Road Car Club - look for it in the club section).

We only race stock due to the size of our hall. 63 drivers on a Wednesday night can't be wrong.

You don't have to be doing 100mph to have fun you know.

No one is saying its wrong, but the fact you're so popular is down to how well you're running the club etc.

If you could double or triple the size of your hall, people would run mod right? Same as PDA, you run the motor which is appropriate for the size.

The way i see it, stock and mod have swapped around in terms of having to spend alot to be quick. I came from TC back in august time and the amount of money and time people we're spending on making the cars quicker was silly. Now i've come to Off road, i've my put my Tekin's in my Cars and 5.5 and 7.5 respectively and i love it. I wouldnt want to put a 13.5 in for stotfold or EPR for example, but when i go to PDA or faversham i would more than happily put my 13.5 in and enjoy it.

I think the americans have alot of smaller outdoor club tracks where as we dont seem to in the UK so i guess it makes sense for the main class here to be mod.

It does get a bit silly in america though with the likes of the IIC and snowbirds where its like 15 classes all consisting of 20-30 people if that (mod at the snowbirds was 16 ppl! ) I'd rather race in a class of 120 people to really see how well im doing

[Tractor Boy]

At the southeast regional series last year we had 20 plus kids taking part and a lot of the under 13 class run 13.5 brushless outside on grass at faversham and westkent tracks and they used the same at EPR.

So you see there is a place for such motors at regional level and you must have seen how well the southeast has been doing over the last few years and this year will be the same i think.

Speed is not the be all and end all at times trust me.

[MRD]

The 20t sealed can 540 Class at York indoor is brilliant for beginners and pros. Its fast enough to be fun but it makes for some close racing, plus tyre's last two or three times longer.

I was using an old 4wd Lazer Zx5 with an HPI Saturn 20t and managed to get a faster time than the 2wd modifieds could manage

[jameswilkinson7]

Originally Posted by MRD

The 20t sealed can 540 Class at York indoor is brilliant for beginners and pros. Its fast enough to be fun but it makes for some close racing, plus tyre's last two or three times longer.

I was using an old 4wd Lazer Zx5 with an HPI Saturn 20t and managed to get a faster time than the 2wd modifieds could manage

Congratulations Mark...

nothing like blowing your own trumpet is there! Still though its rare you get the chance!

[MRD]

My trumpet was made for blowing .

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by chrispattinson

yeah, thats what I thought it was about in the brushed motor days . . . . but now, my car is as fast as Neil Cragg's, and its all about the driver's driving/car setup, hence he p#*s*s all over my laptimes at Worksop.
And with all the dynamic timing tricks available, it seems that stock class encourages more voodoo to make your car better than the others than mod racing.

No more voodoo, as you put it, than was involved in tuning a stock brushed motor. Part of the rationale for killing BR was that BL was easier, and now people are moaning about the speedo voodoo!!

Originally Posted by DCM

I think it has more to do with the slick tracks too, where you still get reasonable speed out of a stock motor too...

Slick tracks in off-road, and small club tracks in TC and 12th. Most racing in the US is at small clubs. They have three or four Regional events each year, and one National. We have a National series and Regional series for each class, most of which are on the same tracks. Those tracks are usually the same ones, large, and well laid out. Running Mod os no problem here, but on most US tracks it's a waste of time and costs loads in spares, etc.

So, because Stock is easier to drive on smaller/slicker tracks, and because it keeps running costs down, it is very popular Stateside. Also remember that it is very popular in track classes in mainland Europe, too.

Originally Posted by Garry

And the American mentality of everyone having to be a winner.

I kid you not, at the International Indoor Carpet champs in Vegas last year (my bro went over and did 2 classes), they had the following all taking place at the same event:

Amateur 17.5 Rubber Tire Sedan
13.5 Rubber Tire Sedan
Modified Rubber Tire Sedan
17.5 Foam Tire Sedan
13.5 Foam Tire Sedan
Modified Foam Tire Sedan
17.5 1/12 Scale
13.5 1/12 Scale
Modified 1/12 Scale
World GT 13.5
Expert World GT 10.5

40ish heats...first heat on the line at 7am.....last one starting gone 7pm.

That's another American speciality - running a class for anyone who wants to race. They don't push people into one class at the expense of others, they cater for lots of classes. That way they get big entries, and they have lots of funds. Again, in the UK we are unusual in insisting on single classes at meetings, most others run multiple classes.

The USA has stock classes because it attracts the biggest population of drivers by far. The biggest class at Vegas was 13.5 TC, followed by Amateur 17.5 TC. The smallest class was 12th Modified! Vegas was a fantastic race, and some of the best racing was in the Stock classes. They like their Stock, Stateside...