Lap Counters

[mikeyscott]

What is required for a club to get an automatic lap counting system and how much are we looking at?

[Garry Driffill]

Transponder sets are VERY expensive... £2,000 or somthing?

[mikeyscott]

eeek - no chance of my small club getting one or myself splashing out a bit of cash.

I'll get them one if I win the lottery

[ashleyb4]

If you have someone who is patient you can buy a laptop and buy a lap counting software like laps etc but this requires someone to press the numbers as the cars pass. If you want automatic lap counting you require a AMB counting system the new one is AMB rc3 which is exspensive but you can get AMB 20 reasonablly chealy second hand maybe a few hundred quid. But they are very rare.

A

[mikeyscott]

They have the software and computer as yes someone presses the number as the car crosses the line etc.

Maybe if we can get the numbers up at Titchfield it will come.

Am I right in thinking that 1/10 off road is coming back?

[terry.sc]

A new AMB system will cost you £1700 for 20 transponders, and a further £2200 for the decoder and timing loop. You can do without the transponders if you can persuade all your members to buy their own transponders, current price for an AMB is £94.30 each.
There might be a cheaper alternative than the full on AMB system available soon, hopefully around £500 for the full system including 20 transponders.

We are developing an infra red system specifically aimed at smaller clubs and even a cheap version as an alternative to the Orion Pro LCS for personal lap counting. It will be a little while though as we've just started trialling the system. The hardware works reliably, we've just got to sort out everything we want in a race program to go with it and find any glitches in the system.

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by mikeyscott

What is required for a club to get an automatic lap counting system and how much are we looking at?

PM gingerfixit on here (Andy Bell). Newbury used to use an infra red system before they got their AMB system, it worked really well to be fair. I am not sure if they still have it and would part with it but Andy would certainly be able to tell you where to get it from.

I can't remember how much Andy said it cost the club but I remember thinking it was an absolute bargin.

[seancormier]

Here at our track in the U.S ,we use the I-LAP infered counter .It works on the same lap counting program as the AMB.The transponders cost about $40us comapred to the AMB $110US.Our track used it for the first time last season and it worked flawlessly.Even the hardcore AMBer couldn't believe how well it worked and how accurate it was!!For our track it cost about $700us for the I-LAP counter/sensors and we used the lapsfree counting program which is free download.
I-LAP website is www.rclapcounter.com thw owners name is Craig and i believe he ships anywhere,just email him.


Seancormier
www.evolutionhobbies.com
www.evolutionrcraceway.com

[RogerM]

That was the one they had at Newbury I think .... seemed to work well.

[seancormier]

This I-LAP system is great for club racing ,also great for bigger events.
Don't let the racers talk you into buying the AMB because they already have the AMB transponder.First the die hard racer will buy the I-LAP transponder no matter if the have the AMB or not.Just have a track set of transponders available for the racers who don't buy them.
Most racer don't know how much a lap counter cost ,so its easy for them to say just get the AMB.If they really knew how much it can cost for a complete AMB system they would look into the I-LAP.
This helps to keep the cost down for the track or club owner ,and in return helps keep entry fee down.
For us it was spend $700us for the I-LAP or $2500+us for the AMB,to get the same end result reliable and accurate lap counting .The I-LAP system does both at a much lower cost.
The I-LAP transponder works thru some painted bodies but clear spot works better,or even a small hole in the body over the tranponder works better.They still will work if they get mud on them or fuel.

Keep in mind that AMB has had a 20+ year monoply on the lap counter business,so it will take time for something new get out there for more people to use and trust .The I-LAP system is that other choice.


Sean Cormier

[bedsrcmcc]

Interested in your comments about the I-Lap System.

Fully agree that until we found out about I-Lap I thought that AMB had the monopoly on our sport and therefore keeped the price high for what is just a small piece of electronics - it's not rocket science and look how cheap computers are these days.

I've been communicating with the guys from I-Lap and so far can not fault their customer service. From a new club's perspective is quite simple which system to go for.

I was just hoping we had a few more clubs using it in the UK so I can gauge if our new club should go for it. It seems that people are very happy with it, and if we charge half of what an AMB transponder costs for the I-Lap transponder, it would only need approx 15 club members to almost pay for the whole system - even better news for a new club without funds

If there is anyone out there running this system, please feedback your thoughts.

Never been a fan of businesses that have monopoly in one sector, so at last it seems we really do have an alternative, and a good one at that too... I wonder how long before AMB drop their silly £1000's + price on their systems?

[ashleyb4]

I do aggree the AMB systems are a bit overpriced. BUT they are defently worth it. I dont lke this idea of the loop sensor things with the I-Lap system. They seem a little exposed. The AMB loop is a simple piece of wire which can be replaced easily. If a car lost control and hit the barrier it could destroy one of the sensor things.

A

[Big G]

frequently I've seen cars take the loop out running the AMB system and it's just a case of connecting the loop of wire back into the box to get the counting going again

[bedsrcmcc]

Originally Posted by ashleyb4

The AMB loop is a simple piece of wire which can be replaced easily.

There in lies the issue I have with the AMB system. 'A simple piece of wire' that connects to a simple circuit board and they charge £2000 for it!!!

I'm surprised no one from China has copied the system, it can't be that complicated - afterall, there are enough free software packages out there for running meetings...

In terms of the fragile nature, we intend running this indoors and I think the bridge does not have to be that close to the track so the chances of a car getting airborne are very slim. If we go with the system, I would look to build a canter-lever arm across the finishline so you would not have a vertical stand on the egde of the track for a car to hit.

I'm going to speak to the guys from I-Lap tonight, if these systems can see through clear body shells, maybe I could house the sensors inside clear boxes which are attached to the bridge arm, therefore providing protection to the sensors.

Watch this space for the feedback...

[bedsrcmcc]

Got the answers to some questions from the guys at I-Lap. Firstly, their swift replies to my emails have been great, I hope their post sales customer service is as great as their pre-sales

In terms of damage to the sensors, they say that the sensors can be 2 foot above the track and some clubs actually place the sensors inside a clear tube when attached to the bridge over a track, thus preventing any damage to the sensors if a car was to hit the bridge.

Just waiting to get some feedback from some clubs who run it, but it's looking like the way forward for us...

[cjm_2008]

a lot of people use a system similar to I-LAP during testing in karting.

if it's good enough for karts, it's got to be good enough for RC

[Lowie]

there is yet one more option to reduce costs, more particular the costs of the transponder.

You could buy the AMB-decoder an loop ... and they buy some MRT-transponders in stead of the AMB-transponders.
MRT-transponders do not have a battery inside but a wire that should be hooked up (as an AMB-personal transponder does) on the receiver.
Advantage of this is that they last much longer then AMB-transponders that lose battery-cpacity after some years.
Other advantage is that your system will be fully compatible with all people that allready use AMB-transponders.
MRT-transponders are much cheaper about 50% of an AMB-transponder) AND you get a reduction if you buy more then 10 (more info: www.rclaps.com)
... But offcourse the cost of an AMB-decoder is rather high.

Cheapest solution will offcourse stay the I-laps system.
I have some experience myself with Laps Free, that free lapcounting-software and it's actually pretty good.
And you are right that good customer-service is VERY important, so more points for I-laps.

[seancormier]

Again we are very pleased with the I-LAP system and is worth the money.Craig at I-LAP has a great product and great customer service.We are about to finish up our second season with the system and it has worked FLAWLESSLY the whole time!

As for the comment about possible damage to the sensors ,we have our sensors mounted on a bridge made from PVC pipe .They are slightly exposed but we have not had any damage to a sensor at all.If you go to our track sie www.evolutionrcraceway.com and copy and paste our new photo bucket link you will see the lap counting bridge in the pictures.The picture are from our recent Money Madness race that we just had a week ago.
The one thing we like is the whole system is powered through a single USB cable,unlike other system that you need to plug in to a power outlet.

If you have any questions about the I-LAP system please email me directly at [email protected].(i do not always check my PM's here on Oople) and NO i do not work for I-LAP, i just believe in the product.

Sean
Evolution Hobbies
Crooked River Rc raceway
Casco Maine USA

[Lowie]

see background left

could you tell us what the whole thing cost you?
Drivers need to borrow those specific transponders, I guess? Or can they buy these as well?

[seancormier]

Lowie

We have little over $700us into our I-LAP system and that included 10 transponders .We used 7 transponders for a track set and 3 to sell.We use the Laps free program which is a free download .The only other expense will be the computer.We use a cheap E-Machine tower bought a Best Buys for$399.99 us.
You can buy more transponders if people want them .We have a track set for those who do not want to buy there own or race once in a while.

Sean