why no belted tyre/tire

[ongbenghui]

Hi Hi,

Just curious. For Touring Car, almost tyres/tires are belted. Why there is no belted tyres for off roader ?

[ashleyb4]

From what i understand they are not belted so they are aloud to ballon in the air so the car can be controled mid flight (but i might have the total wrong end of the stick) If im wrong ide like to know more to.

A

[sosidge]

I doubt the ballooning makes any significant difference to mid-air control, fundamentally it is the weight of the wheel/tyre and it's resulting inertia that allows this.

I'll wager there are 2 reasons...

1. A non-belted tyre will be more supple over a rough surface
2. Nobody has bothered to try and develop one!

[jimmy]

Im pretty sure I've seen people 'belting' their tyres with tape, but maybe it was a dream?
This was at the Euros with dirt tyres.

[Alfonzo]

That whole ballooning business - Am I right in thinking it effectively changes the gear ratio of the whole car?

[Richard Lowe]

Originally Posted by Alfonzo

That whole ballooning business - Am I right in thinking it effectively changes the gear ratio of the whole car?

Yep, I've found when I race on dirt tyres I end up going down a pinion or two

[Alfonzo]

That's pretty cool, the gear ratio effectively increases with speed. In theory that should allow great top speed and allow you decent low ratio punch at low speeds. Nice.

[MiCk B.]

Not a dream Jimmy.

I've seen people belt buggy tyres as well. (But not in the last few years.)

MiCk B. :-)

Originally Posted by jimmy

Im pretty sure I've seen people 'belting' their tyres with tape, but maybe it was a dream?
This was at the Euros with dirt tyres.

[Answer-RC-Pete]

I suspect its largely due to belted tires having little deformation accross the width of the tyre meaning less purchase on a rough surface. Belting is great on the smooth stuff but prob serves little purpose in off road.
We messed about with 1/8th truggy tires and "belting" them and it seemed to help but a well built tire with ribbing was as good if not better overall.

[General Accident]

Originally Posted by sosidge

I doubt the ballooning makes any significant difference to mid-air control, fundamentally it is the weight of the wheel/tyre and it's resulting inertia that allows this.

I'll wager there are 2 reasons...

1. A non-belted tyre will be more supple over a rough surface
2. Nobody has bothered to try and develop one!

Isn't some of the gyroscopic force (which would give mid air stability/control) determinate on the area that's spinning though? So if your tyre balloons you get more control. I mean, it sounds like a good theory, even if I'm totally wrong .

[DCM]

your all making it far more complaicated than it needs to be.

TC tyres are belted, as they are expected to achieve a far higher RPM (much smaller tyre diameter), so to achieve a high speed, the tyre HAS to rotate at a much higher RPM, and with the contact patch being the important aspect of a TC tyre, they belt it to stop the tyre growth around the center line of the tyre, so grip is not lost.

[ongbenghui]

Just my curiosity

So, with all the fancy bushless motor, aren't we all running a higher rpm than before, and hence, higher change of tire ballooning ?

So, belting will help to stop that and increase traction ?

[bender]

I wish they'd sell 1/10th buggy tyres with molded inserts like tc tyres or 1/8th - the foam that comes with proline and losi tyres is crap and makes fitting the tyres correctly to the rim a right pain in the a$$

[ben]

Originally Posted by bender

I wish they'd sell 1/10th buggy tyres with molded inserts like tc tyres or 1/8th - the foam that comes with proline and losi tyres is crap and makes fitting the tyres correctly to the rim a right pain in the a$$

Grp 10th off road tires come with moulded inserts...

[bender]

Where do you get those and do they make compounds for dirt tracks?

Actually I think the tyres that come with Tamiya's Dark Impact are made by GRP - they have molded inserts and are a dream to fit

[Bungleaio]

So how about for indoor off road on carpet thats 85%+ flat, would belting the tyres help for that? It might be worth an experiment with a couple of layers of battery tape.

[sosidge]

Originally Posted by General Accident

Isn't some of the gyroscopic force (which would give mid air stability/control) determinate on the area that's spinning though? So if your tyre balloons you get more control. I mean, it sounds like a good theory, even if I'm totally wrong .

You're right, but I doubt the increased inertia from the ballooned tyre is significant compared to the behaviour of the tyre in it's normal state.

[warped]

Tyre expansion is only really an issue with very soft compounds off road.

Tried the belting thing with ballistic buggy pinks once.

Made no difference to car handling at all when the car was on the ground and the tape quickly came unstuck.

What it did help with was that the it made it easier to land jumps. With full throttle applied to keep the nose up on a small kick jump unbelted tyres were expanding and making the car bounce on landing.

What worked slightly better than tape was coating the insert with evostick.

Personally I wouldn't bother.

[Gayo]

Originally Posted by jimmy

Im pretty sure I've seen people 'belting' their tyres with tape, but maybe it was a dream?
This was at the Euros with dirt tyres.

We used to do that on Medial Pro tyres, their compounds were really soft.
With unbelted ones, the car was "floating" on the straights as the tyres ballooned like crazy.

Preparing a set of Crisp Medial tyres (cutting 1600 pins , reducing diameter and width, belting, gluing them to the rim on the edge to give a round carcass...) was a 2+ hours job

[MiCk B.]

That's how people were preparing tyres at the Euros in Teeside

MiCk B. :-)

Originally Posted by Gayo

Preparing a set of Crisp Medial tyres (cutting 1600 pins , reducing diameter and width, belting, gluing them to the rim on the edge to give a round carcass...) was a 2+ hours job