already on the verge of giving up need inspiration

[nivlacf1]

so been running touring cars since beginning of the year spend hours researching asking questions then setting up the car only to put it on the track each week and there is another unexpected problem i think in all this time my 2 kids have maybe completed 6 to 8 races between them, it so frustrating spending time and money setting the car up to not get one full race, each time you think this is the week i've sorted it now something new pops up and damages the race, i'm not expecting them to be competitive yet but just one night of full races would be good i am so close to giving up, please tell me these are newbie teething problems and they will go away!!!

[cutting42]

It certainly can be frustrating as a beginner when you don't seem to be able to get a clean run in. What are the problems you are having, is it breakages or crashes? I have not run TC, only offroad buggies but the speed of modern cars mean that a crash often means a breakage, certainly as a beginner.

We all struggle at the beginning but most problems early on are down to being a learner driver. Try not to get too focussed on the ideal setup and get a nice stable easy to drive setup on the car - often the out of the box setup will work well - and concentrate on completing a clean race. Don't get caught up in too many scraps, let faster cars by and if possible try following a car that is driving cleanly, follow its lines and learn that way.

As you get more track time the speed and consistency will come and then you can start thinking about car setups and experimenting with spring/damper settings and all that stuff. I don't think I could tell a good setup from a bad setup for a year.


Good luck and don't give up, it happens to us all.

[luniemiester]

It might be worth you having a couple of weeks off and really stripping down and going through both cars and ensuring everything is in order so that you know that when it gets into the track it's right. Running two cars at the same time is always tough especially on a club night when time is limited and races come around quickly.

Possibly try just running 1 driver per week for a couple of weeks so you can just concentrate on getting one full race night in while looking after one car. If after a couple of weeks things get better then start to look at two cars again.

I've never run tourers but i know they can be fragile and a pain to setup - is there a possibility to maybe think about swapping to GT12 if onroad is your preference as they tend to be more robust and less hassle from what I've gathered

If you are still struggling then I'm sure hooking up with a more experienced driver on a club night will pay dividends - people are always willing to help if you ask!

[mattr]

What's the problem with the cars?

[Ashlandchris]

I too have never raced TCs so can only comment on buggies, but they are pretty easy. My 3 youngsters do not manage to break them although only my son has been racing so far. In all 3 I have the ESCs set to really slow the motors down which only really shows on the straight.
Is there a local off road track? Could you look to swap - if you sell 2nd hand and buy 2nd hand this could be cost neutral?

[beale]

I would imagine the cars are too fast for beginners, this is normal no one likes being blitzed on the straights but believe me it improves your driving quicker having a slower car as you work out where you can carry more corner speed and can make up speed advantage this way, we had a father and 2 sons join our club, father had raced before but sons were new and basically full speed crash full speed crash with 13.5 brushless we reduced there throttle EPA's to 50% and lap times instantly improved and cars lasted 5 minutes.

Give us some info on track surface, grip levels (general not yours), tyres used, class entered etc

[mattr]

I'd agree with that!
My TC came with a 5.5t motor, and would (allegedly) hit about 90-100 kph on the back straight. No idea if i was going that fast, but an 8.5 and turning everything down helped massively.

[nivlacf1]

thank you all for your replies i am taking on board what you are saying, yes done the run one car thing a couple of times but not consistently its quite hard to tell one child they can not race this week(tantrums) mostly the cars are breaking or undriveable before the first heat so not crash issues, they are both running xray t3 thought it would be best to get them the same cars so parts would be interchangeable and i could learn set up of one model, we race indoor on carpet, been told best motor is 17.5 for the track as 13.5 makes no differance due to the length of the straight,problems we've had are pulling to one side,(keep doing set up on the car but each week its still there in one way or another) motor problems,(many)some my fault(bad soldering) over heating,drive shafts coming out,(usualy side wall crash related but not always)belts snapping,shocks suddenly losing oil, screws falling out, all these are checked ad double checked over the weekend then put it on the the track PROBLEM :-( the guys at the club have been amazing and always found the fault but sometimes its just to late, not their fault i really appreciate the help and would of been out of a lot more races if it had not been for them,(especially on guy he seems to of become our pit man, he is amazing)but after i have spent so much time working on them they should not have to after all they have their own cars and races, again guys really appreciate the reply you've gave me the inspiration back (for now) so lets go again :-)

[shinytopman]

Thats unusual for an xray as they realy are tanks.

I would strip clean and check everything, replace anything that has bad threads into plastics or metals for that point and rebuild maticulasly, it will pay dividends in the end as you will get to understand the chassis better when it comes to setup and or repairs.

Check all your bearings are free. Check your drive shaft joints for freedom, broken parts and lub.

Make sure your belts are adjusted properly, you don't want your rear belt to tight as it will drive like a rear wheel drive car and as they nail the throttle it will want to step the back out.

Hope you get it sorted.

On another note as has already been mentoined have you thought of GT12? Does the club you go to run GT12?
It really is a great class, its cheaper than TC's, not as fast but very competative, the cars are fairly simple and very robust indeed.

HTH's
Shiny.

[beale]

Xray are very strong but not if the corners are regularly knocked, I have run Xray's for 5 years now and the list of broken parts is minimal however it is the same corner at the same track that has cost me front 3 steering knuckles, each time it happens though all the other components are subjected to the same impact and thus I have ended up replacing driveshafts, bearings and wishbones eventually.
This pulling to 1 side will be exaggerated by a motor that is too powerful/punchy or geared too low, I still think this is a simple to find problem, check-
Rear belt is almost loose front is almost tight,
Remove pinion does everything roll turn freely?
Remove shocks do all wishbones lift and fall under their own weight?
Are all shocks built to same length? (Replace orings and bladders) fill with oil and set rebound to 0 or at least all the same
Check droop, with car on a flat surface with all electrics in race ready, lift front of car in the middle with a driver slowly to see that both front wheels leave the surface at the same time if not adjust the droop screws till they do (aim for 2mm lift before both tyres leave the surface (do same at rear)
What diffs are you using? Oil filled 2k is good, ball diffs need to be smooth rear wheels should almost spin but with no slip
Do they have spools up front?
Check toe shims are the same for each side at the rear you should have 3 deg rear toe in, 1 deg front toe out (without setup gauges to check the front I find if you switch on so the servo centres look from behind the rear wheels to the front you should just see the front of the front wheel proving you have toe out if you only see tyre you have a toe in to neutral setting)

[mattr]

Does your local club have any open sessions? I.e. not a race.

Spending a couple of hours per car setting them up and checking everything over (and making them identical) without the pressure of race timing or screaming kids will make a world of difference.

You'll also not feel so guilty about asking for help, as you aren't spoiling anyone else's race.

[Xracer]

Well nivlacf1 you have certainly opted for a potentially difficult way to start the boys racing, TC's are now one of the most complicated cars along with 4wd off-roaders.
Most of our local youngsters start with something from the Tamiya stable and play outside initially to grasp a degree of driving experience and control, that is usually buggies but some opt for minis or rally cars.
Now you have made your decision though the the advice given here is sound but some of the catalogue of problems you have listed may well be down to the mechanic!
TC's do require careful setup to ensure there is no 'tweak' in the suspension which will force the care to pull to one side under acceleration and braking and it can be different directions for each depending on how each axle is setup. Toe in and toe out should also be balanced to ensure the car moves in a straight line and does not want to crab, all of this are basic setup requirements before you need to worry about camber and caster angles all off which let you fine tune for ultimate performance.
I don't know what experience you have on setup but each rear wheel should apply the same load to the track and so for the fronts to, the front and rear loads will obviously be different due to the front to rear weight distribution. This is done by ensuring the shocks are built to the right length as mentioned elsewhere and the spring adjusters set to remove any 'tweak'.
As for screws falling out well careful use of threadlock for metal parts and not over tightening into plastic parts are the main solutions, breaking belts is usually way to slack but normally over tightening, or hard crashes on full throttle!
I hope I am not preaching here on car building but the boys need to be able to practice there driving, not in a completely open space but around something marked out in an open space, they will soon learn if they have the right encouragement and aptitude.
The message is don't give up but look very closely at what you are doing, ask advice from the better drivers in the club and be patient!
Regards, John and old racer since the early 70's!

[dodgydiy]

motor makes a huge difference with a tc, limiting the power makes the car so much easier to drive. one youngster at the club i go to is really quick with the throttle limited on the car and drives really well, give him full power though and he is a good bit slower as he then isnt driving smoothly. started my kids out with associated b4's, with an old 27 turn stock motor geared very low, and have been slowly going up on the pinion teeth.

[qatmix]

Lots of good advice already in this thread

If you have the manual it's best to just build the car to the factory settings. To be honest a TC is easier to go in a straight line than a GT12 as long as everything is working fine.

Shiny top man lists the main steps to do when at home with the cars.

check your belt tension, the front belt should be able to move about 1cm before it gets tight on 17.5 otherwise you will be creating a lot of drag. The rear should be around the same tension. Also slow the cars down more with a smaller pinion, it doesn't matter if you are slower at the moment, you just need to get to the end of the race.

Another thing to check is the steering assembly, if it's tight it will restrict the servo's ability to centre properly, it will also make the servo saver spring stretch which will in turn just make the car wander instead of going straight.

TC's are great, we have a lot of new drivers racing TC's at our club with the youngsters practising in smooth car parks etc when not at the club. You will soon click with it, just do not put too much pressure on yourself. Plus it sounds like the club is good as you are getting some great help, just listen and learn.

[dale]

Are you racing touring cars indoors?

If so, my advice is don't. For beginners indoors, GT12 is the way to go. They're very simple and strong, so a lot less parts for the kids to break, and less for you to maintain. You'll still need to learn to solder and sort the electrics, but at least the cars will be solid.

Or if you want to stick with TC, find your nearest outdoor track, as that's where TCs are really fun, rather than just hard work.

(I race both TCs and GT12, and I wouldn't run my TC indoors if you paid me, even with 20 years experience).

[nivlacf1]

thank you so much everyone for all your replies, it really has helped re inspire me, another not so good race week this week but getting better, we have now established our transmitters and receivers are rubbish and need to be replaced so that's next on list,

[nivlacf1]

Originally Posted by dale

Are you racing touring cars indoors?

If so, my advice is don't. For beginners indoors, GT12 is the way to go. They're very simple and strong, so a lot less parts for the kids to break, and less for you to maintain. You'll still need to learn to solder and sort the electrics, but at least the cars will be solid.

Or if you want to stick with TC, find your nearest outdoor track, as that's where TCs are really fun, rather than just hard work.

(I race both TCs and GT12, and I wouldn't run my TC indoors if you paid me, even with 20 years experience).

what tyres do you race outdoor on asphalt? thinking of giving it a go but don't know if we need different tyres,most of the ones we have got(came with purchase) seem to be 28's

[qatmix]

most use sorex 32 yellows outside, but the 28's will still work.

[nivlacf1]

done our 1st outdoor tonight WOW it was amazing fun and the cars went really well, i do not know if that was luck or the new transmitter but it was a good night and fun, we ran on 28 sorex as we had forgot our tools lol! but herd a lot of people saying as it was cold they had been running 28's, we are struggling with straight line even at low speed still,got a practice day on Sunday so going to have a play on set up there,

[shinytopman]

Glad to hear you enjoyed. Have never had any dealings with running outdoors but spoken to a lot of people that have said its a lot easier, having more room for run offs and mistakes cost less for the same reason spose a white line is softer on the car than a wall or side markers.

Spoke to someone who said they loved racing in the rain, cos the tyres (providing u got good tyres) cut thro the standing water and its like driving on rails, but they said damp conditions were awful.

Indoor racing can be tight and twisty especially if in a small hall, thats why a lot of people say GT12 indoors TC outdoors.

We are lucky where we live to have a good sized indoor track. My son runs TC which is great for him he has the reactions and the thumbs to match. Me i run GT12 and love the simplicity of the class but very competative racing its a shame my old thumbs and failing eyesight cant do it the justice it deserves.

The main thing is that you enjoy the sport and go home with a smile on your face even if you've had a bad meeting.