TrakPower lipos for Off Road?

[tiny tom]

I am thinking of buying trakpower 3200 (20c) 2s 7.4v saddle pack, which I am going to use to race at club level. As anyone used this in off road racing? I am going to use it in a pred x10
And does anyone know when the brca are going to allow them to be used?

[CODMAN]

What motor esc setup are you going to be using with these? Because 3200 mah at 20C, means you can only get a max 64 amps out of those batteries which is not a lot for some of the very fast modified motors out there today. Using a very fast motor will probably cause the batteries to heat up considerably, not to mention they might not give you enough current to power the motor properly (thus reducing performance). Lipos are quite an investment and you don't want to be re-investing just because you don't get enough power for your racing needs.

Just as a comparison, I ran (for the first time) my B44 with 5500 mah Lipos (15C) and a Mamba max 6900 kv motor. The motor is very powerfull, but the batteries were delivering plenty of power and satyed nice and cool. Some others at the track were running smaller packs (2500-3000 mah) and they were getting very hot (some even swelling!). Not good.

Anyways, it's just food for thought! Buying a bigger Lipo not only gives you longer run times, but more power to the motor.

Hope this helps!

CODMAN

[tiny tom]

Well I am going to run the losi brushless speedo and 5.5 or 6.5 motor, but after speaking to trakpower they said that they don't really over heat. And they think that 3200 would be enough to do the race, and only needed 2 packs.

[mark christopher]

i ran 3200 in my d4 with a 5.5 and they were spot on. chris long has been finding the 3200 pack plenty good enough and up to the job, and he is a far better/fastr driver than me

[discostu]

you wont have any problems with the trac power 3200 lipos 20c we run these cells with 6.5 in our tcs and have no problems but if you wait no dought trac power will realse the new 3600 30c version in a saddle pack configuration.

[Body Paint]

I have run the 3200 trakpower saddles in several 1/10th off road cars. 2wd and 4wd. In 4wd I was using an Atomised B44 running a Novak 5.5R, I ran 7.5 minutes of absolute flat out driving on a large grass track and they had 10% left in them.

IMHO the performance of the 3200 Trakpower is almost identical to my top spec Slingshot 4500 packs, both in power and duration.

Just don't forget to set the Lipo cutoff on the speedo. If you discharge them past 6 volts they will almost definately be terminally damaged.

[Chrislong]

Confirmed. You'll find 3200 20C saddle plenty for any buggy, any motor. They are as good as the best 6 cell nimh pack on first charge, but the Lipo (providing you follow the guidelines) will continue to be this good for, well, for ages - mine haven't dropped off yet and to be honest, ive abused them as hard as possible without doing anything obviously wrong.

Don't forget these are 20C, this means 64amps continuous. The Peak ampage will be more when demanded.

If you are going to anything more, such as 4900's, then you will need to motor down otherwise it won't be controllable.

Chris

[Chrislong]

Oh, and nobody can say that the BRCA will be allowing them. If they did it'd be an utter gamble to say now.

All I can say is proposals to the BRCA will be made, and to get them accepted then please do attend the AGM and show your vote. I will be. The rules are proposed and voted on by the members for the members, "Yes, this is you!" (26th October) www.brca.org

Chris

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by discostu

you wont have any problems with the trac power 3200 lipos 20c we run these cells with 6.5 in our tcs and have no problems but if you wait no dought trac power will realse the new 3600 30c version in a saddle pack configuration.

not sure if they will as its a different cell in side

[CODMAN]

Well, they say ESCs and motors are only as good as your batteries. If your batteries can't give out the juice your system requires, they are holding you back. Some systems even "cog" because the batteries aren't delivering enough current for the startup of the car which pulls big numbers.

I'm not an expert in the area; I'm just repeating what I've learned from others and from my ESC manufacturer.

Sure a 3200 mah 20C will be enough to complete a race. But will it be optimal? It probably won't deliver as much current as your system would want to have and will probably be quite warm (even maybe hot) afterwards... I just figure, for just a bit more, why not go for a more suitable Lipo?

Just my 0.02$ Take it for what it's worth and have fun whatever you decide!

CODMAN

[Bungleaio]

I have got the 3200's in my B44 with 6.5 novak. Racing yesterday on a large grass track I was taking about 2200mah out of them and they had plenty of power. They are a lot smaller than the 4800's that they make, infact I seriously doubt the 4800s would fit in a pred.

[Chrislong]

Originally Posted by CODMAN

Well, they say ESCs and motors are only as good as your batteries. If your batteries can't give out the juice your system requires, they are holding you back. Some systems even "cog" because the batteries aren't delivering enough current for the startup of the car which pulls big numbers.

I'm not an expert in the area; I'm just repeating what I've learned from others and from my ESC manufacturer.

Sure a 3200 mah 20C will be enough to complete a race. But will it be optimal? It probably won't deliver as much current as your system would want to have and will probably be quite warm (even maybe hot) afterwards... I just figure, for just a bit more, why not go for a more suitable Lipo?

Just my 0.02$ Take it for what it's worth and have fun whatever you decide!

CODMAN

You couldn't be more wrong, the 3200 20C Lipo will provide more than enough (like already said), and they do not get hot, as in race conditions they are well within there limit with even me driving them.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by CODMAN

Well, they say ESCs and motors are only as good as your batteries. If your batteries can't give out the juice your system requires, they are holding you back. Some systems even "cog" because the batteries aren't delivering enough current for the startup of the car which pulls big numbers.

I'm not an expert in the area; I'm just repeating what I've learned from others and from my ESC manufacturer.

Sure a 3200 mah 20C will be enough to complete a race. But will it be optimal? It probably won't deliver as much current as your system would want to have and will probably be quite warm (even maybe hot) afterwards... I just figure, for just a bit more, why not go for a more suitable Lipo?

Just my 0.02$ Take it for what it's worth and have fun whatever you decide!

CODMAN

are your cells hard cased?

[Jonathan]

20c doesnt realy tell the whole story. They will do 30c peak and 40c max burst. Exactly how long peak and burst are it doesnt say on the web site but peoples experiences say that it copes very well.

I have actually wondered what true current draw in use is ? Does anyone have actual current draw data for off road , say from from a Novak Sentry for a 5.5 brushless. That would be fascinating to see.

[Chrislong]

Amp draw for brushless is a lot lower than brushed. This is because brushed has a dead short depending on commutator position on the brush and brushless does not have this atall. I don't know what the figures are though, as it all depends on so many variables.

I have leant my Lipo cells to a friend running brushed while I was around, so I could see if the benefit was there like I am finiding with brushless, and the result is, yes the Lipo packs are of the same benefit to brushed as they are brushless despite the higher ampage.

Chris

[matdodd]

I have to say I found the track power 3200 more than good enough when I used a pack at the Belgium GP, with a 5.5 I had no problems with overheating or anything else. As far as I'm concerned bring on lip

[tiny tom]

Well thanks for your input, I think I am going to buy 2 sets of 3200 and see how they go. Just waiting to get my pro-trak back from a upgrade, and give it a go next weekend racing?

[CODMAN]

Well, as I said, I'm repeating what I've been told by credible people and my ESC/ motor manufacturer directly. I might be wrong (it's been know to happen). But I've read of people clocking 50, 60 and even 70 amp draws using brushless motors of this capacity (about in the 4.5-6.5 range). That's borderline for a 20C 3200 mah pack. I've also read of people running these types of motors in 4wd with 3000 ish Lipos and measuring temps in the 140-160 ºF range (which Lipo manufacturers say is not good for long term durability). Last weekend, I personally saw a guy running a 3200 mah pack (in 2wd open) pull the pack from his car in a hurry because it was swollen to 1.5 times it's size and was really hot (then again, It might not have been current draw that caused this; who knows).

For further information, my packs are not hard case. So I am really feeling the temp of the cells, not of the plastic case protecting the cells and which is certainly cooler than the internals. My packs hardly get warm.

All this to say, that this is what I've been told, have read and have witnessed myself. And it's what pushed me to getting bigger packs despite me not needing them to complete a 5 minute race (I want my Lipos to last). I'm still very new to the brushless/ Lipo game and could very well be wrong, despite the fact I find my (or rather the manufacturers) reasoning makes sense.

And in the end, if you are using the 3200s and they are staying cool enough, and giving you enough power, well that's what counts! Have any of you compared back to back the same buggy/ setup with 3200s vs a stronger rated pack? I've not, but know someone who claims he can feel a considerable difference.

If you feel this reasoning is flawed, please by all means correct me. I'd gladly learn what I'm wrong about here and gain in knowledge while I'm at it. That's how we learn.



Cheers!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by CODMAN

Well, as I said, I'm repeating what I've been told by credible people and my ESC/ motor manufacturer directly. I might be wrong (it's been know to happen). But I've read of people clocking 50, 60 and even 70 amp draws using brushless motors of this capacity (about in the 4.5-6.5 range). That's borderline for a 20C 3200 mah pack.the 64 amps is a constant voltage they will peak at up to 30c 96 amps and give a burst of 40c 128 amps which is plenty I've also read of people running these types of motors in 4wd with 3000 ish Lipos and measuring temps in the 140-160 ºF range (which Lipo manufacturers say is not good for long term durability). Last weekend, I personally saw a guy running a 3200 mah pack (in 2wd open) pull the pack from his car in a hurry because it was swollen to 1.5 times it's size and was really hot (then again, It might not have been current draw that caused this; who knows).

i have pushed my cells as hard as i could as i helped run the 3200 and 4800 saddle packs in my car (uncased) as prototypes, not once did they get hot, even after a 10 min thrash.

For further information, my packs are not hard case. So I am really feeling the temp of the cells, not of the plastic case protecting the cells and which is certainly cooler than the internals. My packs hardly get warm.
in the uk only hard case is allowed under current BRCA rules and its not recomended you do run uncased, (above i had to to test them prior to cases being made)
All this to say, that this is what I've been told, have read and have witnessed myself. And it's what pushed me to getting bigger packs despite me not needing them to complete a 5 minute race (I want my Lipos to last). I'm still very new to the brushless/ Lipo game and could very well be wrong, despite the fact I find my (or rather the manufacturers) reasoning makes sense.

And in the end, if you are using the 3200s and they are staying cool enough, and giving you enough power, well that's what counts! Have any of you compared back to back the same buggy/ setup with 3200s vs a stronger rated pack? I've not, but know someone who claims he can feel a considerable difference.
yes i have, same car motor, back to back the 4800 were more punchier, but harder to drive, both came off at the same temp
If you feel this reasoning is flawed, please by all means correct me. I'd gladly learn what I'm wrong about here and gain in knowledge while I'm at it. That's how we learn.



Cheers!

you have had it pointed out several times by racers on here, but still say your going on what you have been told else where..............time to learn from experienced racers this side of the pond

[CODMAN]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

you have had it pointed out several times by racers on here, but still say your going on what you have been told else where..............time to learn from experienced racers this side of the pond

That's what I'm doing by inviting people like you to share their experience and knowledge! If I was simply stubborn and convinved all I know (which is little) and all I've read/heard (which is considerably more than what I know) to be fact, I would have simply ignored all the other posts and stopped discussing the subject convinced to be right on this... Which is not the case! I sincerely do appreciate constructive explanations of why not all that is correct/ exact along with "over pond" hands on experience! There is a lot of good info on this forum and I enjoy soaking it up immensely! But I tend to not throw out my oppinions lightly. Good reasoning and credible explanations will always bring me around to changing my views on things (which is why I often invite people to correct me and explain why I'm wrong). But the classic "I use it and it works" just isn't "mind changing" material for me in general...

Anyways, did not intend to offend or putoff anyone. Just wanted to share and learn by contributing!

Cheers!

CODMAN