Curious: best 2wd in low grip?

[Chris Elworthy]

As the title suggests I'm just wondering what people feel is the best current 2wd on wet/low grip astro or wet/worn grass tracks?

I've noticed the current trend with new chassis being very much designed with high grip conditions in mind at the expense of rear grip, the Rb6 (that I run) and the Team C TM2 are particular examples.

From my knowledge the X-Factory X-6 seems to generate good grip when it gets loose and slippy but are there any others?

What is your opinion on the subject from your experience of car's on wet/slippy astro in particular.


Chris

[Dudders]

Any vega IMHO.

[neallewis]

My Yokomo BMAX 2 MR is fantastic in low grip slippy rubber and polished gym floor tracks, best car for it i think. It feels the similar, and generates as much rear grip as the X6^2, and I prefer it driving to the B4.X rear motor as it carries much more corner speed, rather than having to break and turn on B4.

It's also fantastic, along with X6 and centro, at the Batley style track of low grip weathered astro, grass, damp, etc.

[jaank]

Originally Posted by Dudders

Any vega IMHO.

I can't see how MM car would work good on low-grip surfaces.
Slippery astro doesn't count as low-grip.

[dicky14]

TM2 works on worn grass if you take the right lines. had no problems at our last regional

[neallewis]

Originally Posted by jaank

I can't see how MM car would work good on low-grip surfaces.
Slippery astro doesn't count as low-grip.

You've never run at Batley then. much lower grip than regular astro that's wet.

I was also talking polished wooden gym (Yorcc) or rubber floors (Cully or Batley indoors). Very much low grip.

[JohnM]

Originally Posted by jaank

I can't see how MM car would work good on low-grip surfaces.
Slippery astro doesn't count as low-grip.

The X-6's all work well on low grip tracks, don't forget they were designed in the States on dirt tracks

Pretty sure Ellis was the only person to get a mid car in the Euro A final on dirt a few years back when he drove for X-Factory.

[Neil Skull]

Originally Posted by Chris Elworthy

As the title suggests I'm just wondering what people feel is the best current 2wd on wet/low grip astro or wet/worn grass tracks?

I've noticed the current trend with new chassis being very much designed with high grip conditions in mind at the expense of rear grip, the Rb6 (that I run) and the Team C TM2 are particular examples.

From my knowledge the X-Factory X-6 seems to generate good grip when it gets loose and slippy but are there any others?

What is your opinion on the subject from your experience of car's on wet/slippy astro in particular.


Chris

Chris The RB6 was mostly designed On low grip dirt tracks in rear motor. The mid motor option is great for UK and the shorty layout means you can shove the battery right back when grip is down or right up front when its up. The TM2 and DB1/2 are specifically for the High Grip! as well as the other mid motor conversions like the Centro.

I think any car that can get the weight at the back when grip gets low will work fine if you find your self in that situation.

[racingdwarf]

I drove my B4 then a vega back to back on our very low grip dirt track, both cars had the same tyres and I had spent a fair amount of time with many setups on the B4, The vega was far far better, but I also ran a very modified mad monkey at the time, and that was also better than the B4. I sold both for a vega TBH I never could work out why everyone says rear motor is so good in low grip we also tried our rear motored 22, that was shocking!

I ran the B4 on grass for 5years before that so it's not like I didn't know the car

[dpackster1980]

B- Max2MR is tremendous, it generates loads of traction.

[Al3xis007]

Ones with new rear tyres...

[Origineelreclamebord]

Originally Posted by jaank

I can't see how MM car would work good on low-grip surfaces.
Slippery astro doesn't count as low-grip.

Think again Mid-motor can be absolutely killer on low bite! To be honest I think a Vega might not be the finest example because I think a more flexible chassis will offer better performance on low bite, but I haven't tried it. However, there are some cars I experienced/drove myself and are very nice!

X-6 (Sq): By far the easiest RWD I've ever driven! It has tons of rear grip (even on dusty, bumpy clay) and the car feels very forgiving. Anyone who can't get around on dirt should try one of these cars - there are tons of setups for this car on low bite so it shouldn't be hard getting it right.

TLR22/22 2.0: It's not without reason the Junior Euros Champion used his TLR22 in mid-motor configuration - the rear-motor can be quicker, but according to him it doesn't feel comfortable, and the times are not as consistent as a mid-motor. The setups are on PetitRC (Example, Click): No strange tricks with weights (only weight under the shorty), just a really well thought out setup.

I tried both his 22 and 22 2.0 - the 22 was nice, the 22 2.0 was nothing short of amazing! Very smooth on all fronts, good amount of steering, the rear end slides, but so little that you don't need to countersteer, and lastly: it begs to be pushed and doesn't bite back! It feels much more nimble than an X-6 Sq, but I do want to add the 22 seems to require a much more specific setup to work that well.

DEX210: A fellow club member of mine didn't get the RM DEX210 to work for him in the first few months of racing, so he stuck with mid-motor. I tried his car and it seemed a litle edgy on the rear when you pushed it - other than that it was very solid!

After driving his car I decided to go down the same route. The car needs some small mods/upgrades. For example, the rear droop needs to be increased to the limit of what the shock can give you. Also, I decided to run a shorty pack and Cream battery stopper in the rear of the car. I'm still running too stiff a damper setup so it's lacking a bit of rear grip currently, yet I don't find my car that edgy (I run shorter front links than him, it might be down to that). Once I soften the setup on the car it shouldn't be far off from the other two mid-motors I just mentioned.

My Conclusion: I'm not implying any of these cars is best - it's down to setup and preference of driving style. However, I do want to point out mid-motor can be an excellent choice on low bite, and I chose a mid-motor over a rear-motor because:

- I found the MM is more gentle and will warn you when you tend to step over the line. It will feel sort of comfortable even when the setup is not optimal (Which also makes it harder to spot where you can find the edge in your setup).
- I found RM has more of a temper and you don't know when it's going to fight you. Also, the car can feel pretty dreadful to drive when the setup is not there yet (Which also should make it easier to spot what setup changes will make the car feel better and quicker).

[gazhillAE]

Originally Posted by Al3xis007

Ones with new rear tyres...

And someone who can change a setup !

[Al3xis007]

Yup

[Miggers]

BITDays of Group B rallying,Peugeot,Lancia,Rover and Ford all ran
a mid-engined car(ok,I know they were all 4WD too),but the point is
that even for 2WD/low-grip,a mid has to be better than a rear motor.

The weight distribution is much better for starters making the mid
much less tail happy than having a great big lump of metal hanging
on the very rear of the car.

[discostu]

Low grip Mm that's a bit of a under statement in most venues I've ran my bmax 2 mr at FORCC as well as Nathan Ralls and found it faired up pretty good against some very quick 4wd only Two laps down

FORCC Run on dusty wood floor I ran mini spikes and cut low pro staggers Nathan ran pins and low pro staggers with very similar results.

But to be fair all cars will work on low grip you just need to set them up which unfortunatly this talent seems to be lacking at times.

Stu rand

[Lee24h]

Rear motor is easier to drive to the limit but the mintute the limit is reached it will be violent whereas mid motor will be easier to cope with if you overstep the mark.
As for real cars
rc cars they are so far removed that you cant make a comparison as group be cars had very short wheel bases and buggies are getting longer and longer also the group b cars where very twichy and any mistake usually resulted in a accident or death
The comparison you can make to group b cars is that they where over powered just like most rc 2wd buggies

[Dazzieboy]

If you were to make a comparison to real cars then GT racing would be more appropriate. In the dry the quickest car teds to be the mid engined Ferraris but when it's wet the Porsche 911 has an advantage as it gets more drive out of the corners with less wheelspin. Don't know whether that helps or not

[buggy#0]

I would like to chip in and say my Cougar SV2 is pretty decent at generating grip in low-grip conditions. I have had a few wash-out weekends this year, one particularly bad one with a field turning into a complete mudbath, and of the cars still running the Schumachers seemed to be coming top (I remember one heat that got a Schuey 1,2,3).

[burgie]

Let's not forget that the best car in low grip conditions is the car in the hands of the best driver.

SV2, DEX210, RB6, whatever, will only do well if you can set it up and drive it in the given conditions.

Lee Martin or Craggy or Tricky or TomCock driving a 19t Mardave Meteor will beat most if not all of us driving the "latest and best" 2wd buggy in any given conditions!!!